Wow! Membership Renewal Fee!

[JBanczak]

Here are some comparisons from some of the B&B website trackers I have access to. I was not hunting for a particular outcome. The first three graphs represent comparisons of the website referrals. The last is cost for each listing for a year (minimum level for a link to the property's website).

.

Swirt,
Do you measure reservation conversion as well? In other words, can you see that for every 100 visits from iloveinns for instance, you get the same number of reservations as you do from a BedandBreakfast.com?
If not reservations, do you track things like bounce rate, time on site, etc.? This speaks to the quality of traffic issue that we have heard resoundingly from other marketing firms.
.

That's a good question. Here are the bounce rates. I had to switch out two properties because I didn't have access to their bounce rate data. So I had to swap in two others that I did have bounce rate data for.
For clarification for anyone reading who is not familiar with bounce rates, they indicate what percentage of the incoming referrals left the property's website after only seeing the one page the landed on. (meaning it is a good indication they didn't make a reservation) So an 18% bounce rate means that 18% of the people that clicked through from iloveinns, left after seeing only one page.

(Keep in mind that a listing with bandb.com brings with it a listing on inns.com)
A more in depth look at bounce rates for a B&B website.
I am pulling together information on conversion (getting people to actually make a reservation), but so far it doesn't look like it is going to make the case you want it to.
.

I think it is interesting data whether it makes my case or not. I can only go on what we see here at Rezo, and what I've seen presented by Savvy and Whitestone. Do you have metrics like time on site as well? How many B&B's is this for?

 

[swirt]

Here are some comparisons from some of the B&B website trackers I have access to. I was not hunting for a particular outcome. The first three graphs represent comparisons of the website referrals. The last is cost for each listing for a year (minimum level for a link to the property's website).

.

Swirt,
Do you measure reservation conversion as well? In other words, can you see that for every 100 visits from iloveinns for instance, you get the same number of reservations as you do from a BedandBreakfast.com?
If not reservations, do you track things like bounce rate, time on site, etc.? This speaks to the quality of traffic issue that we have heard resoundingly from other marketing firms.
.

That's a good question. Here are the bounce rates. I had to switch out two properties because I didn't have access to their bounce rate data. So I had to swap in two others that I did have bounce rate data for.
For clarification for anyone reading who is not familiar with bounce rates, they indicate what percentage of the incoming referrals left the property's website after only seeing the one page the landed on. (meaning it is a good indication they didn't make a reservation) So an 18% bounce rate means that 18% of the people that clicked through from iloveinns, left after seeing only one page.

(Keep in mind that a listing with bandb.com brings with it a listing on inns.com)
A more in depth look at bounce rates for a B&B website.
I am pulling together information on conversion (getting people to actually make a reservation), but so far it doesn't look like it is going to make the case you want it to.
.

I think it is interesting data whether it makes my case or not. I can only go on what we see here at Rezo, and what I've seen presented by Savvy and Whitestone. Do you have metrics like time on site as well? How many B&B's is this for?
.

I can get avg time on site for these. This is just pulled from 3 B&B's I have a limited pool to choose from as it is hard to find inns that belong to all 4 directories.

 

[JBanczak]

Here are some comparisons from some of the B&B website trackers I have access to. I was not hunting for a particular outcome. The first three graphs represent comparisons of the website referrals. The last is cost for each listing for a year (minimum level for a link to the property's website).

.

Swirt,
Do you measure reservation conversion as well? In other words, can you see that for every 100 visits from iloveinns for instance, you get the same number of reservations as you do from a BedandBreakfast.com?
If not reservations, do you track things like bounce rate, time on site, etc.? This speaks to the quality of traffic issue that we have heard resoundingly from other marketing firms.
.

That's a good question. Here are the bounce rates. I had to switch out two properties because I didn't have access to their bounce rate data. So I had to swap in two others that I did have bounce rate data for.
For clarification for anyone reading who is not familiar with bounce rates, they indicate what percentage of the incoming referrals left the property's website after only seeing the one page the landed on. (meaning it is a good indication they didn't make a reservation) So an 18% bounce rate means that 18% of the people that clicked through from iloveinns, left after seeing only one page.

(Keep in mind that a listing with bandb.com brings with it a listing on inns.com)
A more in depth look at bounce rates for a B&B website.
I am pulling together information on conversion (getting people to actually make a reservation), but so far it doesn't look like it is going to make the case you want it to.
.

I think it is interesting data whether it makes my case or not. I can only go on what we see here at Rezo, and what I've seen presented by Savvy and Whitestone. Do you have metrics like time on site as well? How many B&B's is this for?
.

I can get avg time on site for these. This is just pulled from 3 B&B's I have a limited pool to choose from as it is hard to find inns that belong to all 4 directories.
.

I wish I could find the post I made back last fall. I had pulled all stats on RezOvation hosted properties since we track everything down to the reservation. It was quite a few properties, but I'm having a hard time finding it. I also emailed Whitestone Marketing - they gave a presentation at the SR conference which showed all kinds of stats for their hosted properties. Savvy Innkeeper posted a few posts on the PAII forum as well - they host over 700 websites. I would just cut and paste here, but I think that violates the rules of the PAII forum.

 

[swirt]

Hi everyone,
Long time lurker and aspiring innkeeper here
I just wanted to add my 2 cents in here about bedandbreakfast.com.
I recently planned a trip down to Key West and in my opinion, Trip Advisor is much more helpful than B&B.com. As a consumer I found B&B's site too commercialized and cheesy.
I would focus on improving my Trip Advisor ranking as opposed to paying such a large membership fee with B&B. When I looked for a place to stay I look for those with the most guest reviews and traveler photos. B&B just doesn't have the number of reviews that TA does and thus wasn't as useful. Besides that, obviously since not all inns are members at B&B.com, B&B doesn't list them all. As a consumer I don't like that. I like to have all the possible places in front of me, ranked by what other travelers think, not who pays the most for a top spot.
Maybe I'm weird but those are my thoughts! .

Is there anything about TripAdvisor besides the reviews that you like better?
We usually hear that innkeepers are frustrated - no link to their B&B's, no map (unless you are on Expedia through BB.com - and if you are not - your map link goes to a map of all properties around your inn except you), no amenities link, limited photos if any, the pages are literally covered with hotel advertising, and the reviews are often done by folks who have never stayed at a B&B before.
We understand we need more reviews to make consumers happy - that is for certain. We are over 50,000 reviews now and growing steadily - definitely an area of focus.
.

I hope I'm doing this right... this forum has me all confused because the posts are out of order. Is there any way to make them go in order based on date/time of post?
Anyway, RE: TripAdvisor... besides the reviews, the ranking is also someting I really like. Most of the time I go straight down the list for the area I'm traveling to. If I find a decent rate and a place with great reviews I don't continue to search. I might skim the other hotels in the area if there aren't too many but generally I'm sold already. Also, traveler photos are of utmost importance. Photos we take ourselves and retouch, or have professionally taken always highlight the best parts of the property. I like to see traveler photos because they're honest and don't try and cover any blemishes the property might have.
In general it might help to offer guests a 5% discount on their next stay if they go to TA and rate you. I would imagine if they're after the 5% discount they're not going to say it was horrible! LOL
.

I hope I'm doing this right... this forum has me all confused because the posts are out of order. Is there any way to make them go in order based on date/time of post?

Check out the FAQ's (scroll down to "preferences")
.

BTW - I don't think the sort order of "oldest first" or "newest first" changes anything on my screen when trying to view these.
.

Oldest first and newest first only works with the flat list, not with the threaded.

 

[swirt]

Pages per visit: The general idea is that the more pages a person looks at, the more interested they are in your site (the more likely a potential guest they are, as opposed to just a looky loo)

In general this gives the impression that all of the directories are close to an even footing in terms of the interest level of the visitors they provide.
Time on Site: This metric looks at the average time a visitor spends on the site. In general, the more time they spend on the site, the more interested they are and more likely they are to try to make a reservation.

Again the variations are pretty small, indicating the "quality" of the prospective visitor is quite similar (with the exception of inns.com).
Usual disclaimer that this is a small sample of three inns.

 

[swirt]

Conversion Rates
Ideally conversion rates ought to only look at who actually booked a room. But due to some limitations at play for the reservation systems being used in this sample, that's not possible. So there conversion rates are in terms of visitors who reached the goal. The goal is defined as doing any of the following: availability search, sending the owner an email, or making a reservation/reservation request. So as an example: 15% of the traffic that came from bbonline attempted to book a room.

Again the results are pretty close with the same small sample. There is nothing here that suggests to me that visitors coming from one particular directory are leaps and bounds more likely to book a room.

 

[swirt]

I should add that conversion, time on site, pages viewed and bounce rate are closely tied to how well a property's website works. It has more to do with evaluating the health of your own site, but it can be a good method to compare traffic provided by directories. Your mileage may differ greatly so it is worth it to look at all of these figures for your own site. These numbers can differ radically from location to location.

 

[Mr.Design]

Hi everyone,
Long time lurker and aspiring innkeeper here
I just wanted to add my 2 cents in here about bedandbreakfast.com.
I recently planned a trip down to Key West and in my opinion, Trip Advisor is much more helpful than B&B.com. As a consumer I found B&B's site too commercialized and cheesy.
I would focus on improving my Trip Advisor ranking as opposed to paying such a large membership fee with B&B. When I looked for a place to stay I look for those with the most guest reviews and traveler photos. B&B just doesn't have the number of reviews that TA does and thus wasn't as useful. Besides that, obviously since not all inns are members at B&B.com, B&B doesn't list them all. As a consumer I don't like that. I like to have all the possible places in front of me, ranked by what other travelers think, not who pays the most for a top spot.
Maybe I'm weird but those are my thoughts! .

Is there anything about TripAdvisor besides the reviews that you like better?
We usually hear that innkeepers are frustrated - no link to their B&B's, no map (unless you are on Expedia through BB.com - and if you are not - your map link goes to a map of all properties around your inn except you), no amenities link, limited photos if any, the pages are literally covered with hotel advertising, and the reviews are often done by folks who have never stayed at a B&B before.
We understand we need more reviews to make consumers happy - that is for certain. We are over 50,000 reviews now and growing steadily - definitely an area of focus.
.

I hope I'm doing this right... this forum has me all confused because the posts are out of order. Is there any way to make them go in order based on date/time of post?
Anyway, RE: TripAdvisor... besides the reviews, the ranking is also someting I really like. Most of the time I go straight down the list for the area I'm traveling to. If I find a decent rate and a place with great reviews I don't continue to search. I might skim the other hotels in the area if there aren't too many but generally I'm sold already. Also, traveler photos are of utmost importance. Photos we take ourselves and retouch, or have professionally taken always highlight the best parts of the property. I like to see traveler photos because they're honest and don't try and cover any blemishes the property might have.
In general it might help to offer guests a 5% discount on their next stay if they go to TA and rate you. I would imagine if they're after the 5% discount they're not going to say it was horrible! LOL
.

I hope I'm doing this right... this forum has me all confused because the posts are out of order. Is there any way to make them go in order based on date/time of post?
Anyway, RE: TripAdvisor... besides the reviews, the ranking is also someting I really like. Most of the time I go straight down the list for the area I'm traveling to. If I find a decent rate and a place with great reviews I don't continue to search. I might skim the other hotels in the area if there aren't too many but generally I'm sold already. Also, traveler photos are of utmost importance. Photos we take ourselves and retouch, or have professionally taken always highlight the best parts of the property. I like to see traveler photos because they're honest and don't try and cover any blemishes the property might have.

I guess I'm putting on my industry hat here, because I do think Trip Advisor is a useful site... but I don't think Trip Advisor is the healthy, long-term solution for the industry. I don't think a site that offers no direct link to a property, no map (only shows non-B&B properties nearby to your property) is a very good consumer solution that benefits a B&B. IMHO Trip Advisor is taking information on B&B's, then saying to consumers - "don't book them... it is really hard... we don't even have links, you can't find out where they are... but HERE... take a look at all these easy-to-book hotels at cheap rates just around the corner. Feel free to check availability on them right here, get a low-price guarantee, etc."
This, to me, pulls business away from B&B's - it doesn't draw them to B&B's. Sure - everyone knows Hyatt exists, and Expedia exists - so I'm not anti-advertising at all, but NOT making it easy to book a B&B or find their information just reinforces to consumers that it is a pain to deal with a small property.
Imagine the process if you are looking for a property on a busy weekend...
1) Go to TA. Find list of properties in a city. Decide you don't want hotels and you want B&B's. Find one where you like the review. Great - I'm interested..
2) Open another browser, enter B&B name into Google.
3) See B&B listing in google - click on it.
4) Go back to B&B site, find map of B&B, figure out it isn't the location you want.
5) Go back to TA. Read more reviews find another you like, but it has three user photos of stain on the carpet because the guest that left that morning spilled coffee and there was only time to do a fast cleaning. Skip it.
6) Read more reviews, find 3rd B&B you like. Click on the map link.
7) Expedia window opens up showing you all hotels near to that B&B - but NOT that B&B.
8) Gee, this Marriott is pretty close to where I wanted to be, and I can check availability of all hotels with one click. That sounds good.... so I do - and find a few great deals.
9) But I really wanted a B&B... so I go to Google and type in the name of that B&B one more time and click through to their website.
10) Looks good, I check the map, looks okay - so I go to book. Ooops - no availability. Back to TA.
11) Okay - one last ditch effort before I book the Marriott... here is my 4th preference of a B&B. Map opens up to Expedia again - alright, tried that route.
12) Back to google. Enter property name, find it, click through to it, check availability. It is available - but it is $50 more per night than the Marriott, and it is a "request for a reservation..."
13) Okay - I'm booking that Marriott. This is getting too difficult.
That is the scenario we want to change. For starters - we want to allow B&B's to be bookable through Expedia so they show up on those maps... but more importantly we want to make it easy on BedandBreakfast.com for people to do that research without clicking all over the web to find out where properties are, what is available, etc. Consumer perception is that B&B's are hard to find, hard to book, and have varying service - when we as an industry change that - we will start to take more business from larger hotels. Until then we will have to continue to deal with the fact that 96% of the traveling public says they do not stay at B&B's.
Relying on Trip Advisor to change that is not, IMHO the solution to get that 96% number down to 92%. That seems pretty darn doable - and we would literally double the business going to B&B's while still having greater than 90% of Americans never consider them.
That is why we are trying to put the name "BedandBreakfast.com" in front of consumers in any way, shape, or form we can. Nothing about that name says "hotel," and nothing would make all of us happier than doubling the business to B&B's.
5) Repeat google search process, and
.

Hi there,
I'm not sure what you mean by no map. Every property, B&B or otherwise, is avaliable on a map, provided the address is on TA. For example, here's the Key West map:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocalMaps-g34345-Key_West-Area.html#a_reset:geo_34345:detail_34345:mw_1056:mh_562age_0:mt_h:mz_12:mc_24.55408,-81.801:cat_2:currency_USD:minrate_0:maxrate_9999999:umaxrate_9999999:class_
I hope that link works... if not, try this and select the B&B radio button:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocalMaps-g34345-Key_West-Area.html
If you mean when you click on "Map this hotel" then yes, you're right, that is a bad map because if it isn't listed with Expedia, it doesn't show up.
Re- Traveler photos... I don't really think anyone's going to do something like that UNLESS their stay was equally as bad. I know one property I looked at did have termite droppings on one of the pillows. The innkeeper replied saying that yes, that is what it was but the island does have lots of termites and they treat them as soon as possible. Well, that's fine and dandy but unacceptable, IMO. Here's the entire review and reply:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g34345-d324945-r16037059-Simonton_Court_Historic_Inn_and_Cottages-Key_West_Florida_Keys_Florida.html
Maybe it's just me, but like I said, B&B.com is not a pleasing site as a consumer to use. I find it very commercialized and tacky, and I think most people stay at a B&B to get away from the whole commercialization idea. The other factor I don't like, and I know I said it before, but they don't list everyone. Again, as a consumer it raises concerns and thus makes me dig deeper to find what else is out there.
All in all after seeing the rates they charge, my point is, coming from a consumer stand point I don't believe it's worth it for innkeepers.
I think I got the display right, thanks for the solution!

 

[JBanczak]

Hi everyone,
Long time lurker and aspiring innkeeper here
I just wanted to add my 2 cents in here about bedandbreakfast.com.
I recently planned a trip down to Key West and in my opinion, Trip Advisor is much more helpful than B&B.com. As a consumer I found B&B's site too commercialized and cheesy.
I would focus on improving my Trip Advisor ranking as opposed to paying such a large membership fee with B&B. When I looked for a place to stay I look for those with the most guest reviews and traveler photos. B&B just doesn't have the number of reviews that TA does and thus wasn't as useful. Besides that, obviously since not all inns are members at B&B.com, B&B doesn't list them all. As a consumer I don't like that. I like to have all the possible places in front of me, ranked by what other travelers think, not who pays the most for a top spot.
Maybe I'm weird but those are my thoughts! .

Is there anything about TripAdvisor besides the reviews that you like better?
We usually hear that innkeepers are frustrated - no link to their B&B's, no map (unless you are on Expedia through BB.com - and if you are not - your map link goes to a map of all properties around your inn except you), no amenities link, limited photos if any, the pages are literally covered with hotel advertising, and the reviews are often done by folks who have never stayed at a B&B before.
We understand we need more reviews to make consumers happy - that is for certain. We are over 50,000 reviews now and growing steadily - definitely an area of focus.
.

I hope I'm doing this right... this forum has me all confused because the posts are out of order. Is there any way to make them go in order based on date/time of post?
Anyway, RE: TripAdvisor... besides the reviews, the ranking is also someting I really like. Most of the time I go straight down the list for the area I'm traveling to. If I find a decent rate and a place with great reviews I don't continue to search. I might skim the other hotels in the area if there aren't too many but generally I'm sold already. Also, traveler photos are of utmost importance. Photos we take ourselves and retouch, or have professionally taken always highlight the best parts of the property. I like to see traveler photos because they're honest and don't try and cover any blemishes the property might have.
In general it might help to offer guests a 5% discount on their next stay if they go to TA and rate you. I would imagine if they're after the 5% discount they're not going to say it was horrible! LOL
.

I hope I'm doing this right... this forum has me all confused because the posts are out of order. Is there any way to make them go in order based on date/time of post?
Anyway, RE: TripAdvisor... besides the reviews, the ranking is also someting I really like. Most of the time I go straight down the list for the area I'm traveling to. If I find a decent rate and a place with great reviews I don't continue to search. I might skim the other hotels in the area if there aren't too many but generally I'm sold already. Also, traveler photos are of utmost importance. Photos we take ourselves and retouch, or have professionally taken always highlight the best parts of the property. I like to see traveler photos because they're honest and don't try and cover any blemishes the property might have.

I guess I'm putting on my industry hat here, because I do think Trip Advisor is a useful site... but I don't think Trip Advisor is the healthy, long-term solution for the industry. I don't think a site that offers no direct link to a property, no map (only shows non-B&B properties nearby to your property) is a very good consumer solution that benefits a B&B. IMHO Trip Advisor is taking information on B&B's, then saying to consumers - "don't book them... it is really hard... we don't even have links, you can't find out where they are... but HERE... take a look at all these easy-to-book hotels at cheap rates just around the corner. Feel free to check availability on them right here, get a low-price guarantee, etc."
This, to me, pulls business away from B&B's - it doesn't draw them to B&B's. Sure - everyone knows Hyatt exists, and Expedia exists - so I'm not anti-advertising at all, but NOT making it easy to book a B&B or find their information just reinforces to consumers that it is a pain to deal with a small property.
Imagine the process if you are looking for a property on a busy weekend...
1) Go to TA. Find list of properties in a city. Decide you don't want hotels and you want B&B's. Find one where you like the review. Great - I'm interested..
2) Open another browser, enter B&B name into Google.
3) See B&B listing in google - click on it.
4) Go back to B&B site, find map of B&B, figure out it isn't the location you want.
5) Go back to TA. Read more reviews find another you like, but it has three user photos of stain on the carpet because the guest that left that morning spilled coffee and there was only time to do a fast cleaning. Skip it.
6) Read more reviews, find 3rd B&B you like. Click on the map link.
7) Expedia window opens up showing you all hotels near to that B&B - but NOT that B&B.
8) Gee, this Marriott is pretty close to where I wanted to be, and I can check availability of all hotels with one click. That sounds good.... so I do - and find a few great deals.
9) But I really wanted a B&B... so I go to Google and type in the name of that B&B one more time and click through to their website.
10) Looks good, I check the map, looks okay - so I go to book. Ooops - no availability. Back to TA.
11) Okay - one last ditch effort before I book the Marriott... here is my 4th preference of a B&B. Map opens up to Expedia again - alright, tried that route.
12) Back to google. Enter property name, find it, click through to it, check availability. It is available - but it is $50 more per night than the Marriott, and it is a "request for a reservation..."
13) Okay - I'm booking that Marriott. This is getting too difficult.
That is the scenario we want to change. For starters - we want to allow B&B's to be bookable through Expedia so they show up on those maps... but more importantly we want to make it easy on BedandBreakfast.com for people to do that research without clicking all over the web to find out where properties are, what is available, etc. Consumer perception is that B&B's are hard to find, hard to book, and have varying service - when we as an industry change that - we will start to take more business from larger hotels. Until then we will have to continue to deal with the fact that 96% of the traveling public says they do not stay at B&B's.
Relying on Trip Advisor to change that is not, IMHO the solution to get that 96% number down to 92%. That seems pretty darn doable - and we would literally double the business going to B&B's while still having greater than 90% of Americans never consider them.
That is why we are trying to put the name "BedandBreakfast.com" in front of consumers in any way, shape, or form we can. Nothing about that name says "hotel," and nothing would make all of us happier than doubling the business to B&B's.
5) Repeat google search process, and
.

Hi there,
I'm not sure what you mean by no map. Every property, B&B or otherwise, is avaliable on a map, provided the address is on TA. For example, here's the Key West map:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocalMaps-g34345-Key_West-Area.html#a_reset:geo_34345:detail_34345:mw_1056:mh_562age_0:mt_h:mz_12:mc_24.55408,-81.801:cat_2:currency_USD:minrate_0:maxrate_9999999:umaxrate_9999999:class_
I hope that link works... if not, try this and select the B&B radio button:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocalMaps-g34345-Key_West-Area.html
If you mean when you click on "Map this hotel" then yes, you're right, that is a bad map because if it isn't listed with Expedia, it doesn't show up.
Re- Traveler photos... I don't really think anyone's going to do something like that UNLESS their stay was equally as bad. I know one property I looked at did have termite droppings on one of the pillows. The innkeeper replied saying that yes, that is what it was but the island does have lots of termites and they treat them as soon as possible. Well, that's fine and dandy but unacceptable, IMO. Here's the entire review and reply:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g34345-d324945-r16037059-Simonton_Court_Historic_Inn_and_Cottages-Key_West_Florida_Keys_Florida.html
Maybe it's just me, but like I said, B&B.com is not a pleasing site as a consumer to use. I find it very commercialized and tacky, and I think most people stay at a B&B to get away from the whole commercialization idea. The other factor I don't like, and I know I said it before, but they don't list everyone. Again, as a consumer it raises concerns and thus makes me dig deeper to find what else is out there.
All in all after seeing the rates they charge, my point is, coming from a consumer stand point I don't believe it's worth it for innkeepers.
I think I got the display right, thanks for the solution!
.

If you mean when you click on "Map this hotel" then yes, you're right, that is a bad map because if it isn't listed with Expedia, it doesn't show up.
Re- Traveler photos... I don't really think anyone's going to do something like that UNLESS their stay was equally as bad. I know one property I looked at did have termite droppings on one of the pillows. The innkeeper replied saying that yes, that is what it was but the island does have lots of termites and they treat them as soon as possible. Well, that's fine and dandy but unacceptable, IMO. Here's the entire review and reply:
Maybe it's just me, but like I said, B&B.com is not a pleasing site as a consumer to use. I find it very commercialized and tacky, and I think most people stay at a B&B to get away from the whole commercialization idea. The other factor I don't like, and I know I said it before, but they don't list everyone. Again, as a consumer it raises concerns and thus makes me dig deeper to find what else is out there.

Yes, that is the map that I am talking about. If you go to "Key West" as a city landing page, you don't get the option of seeing the map of the area, nor do you if you go click on any of the individual listings. If you go to any individual listing that is not also on Expedia, and try to map it, then you end up with no map (and the map of surrounding properties).
You certainly seem to know a lot about their site though, although I'm having a hard time finding how our site is more commercialized/tacky than what I see below with a Disney ad spot, Universal ad spot, Hilton 20% off, and two separate sponsored listing boxes with ads for Expedia, BestWestern, Starwood, About-Keywesthotels.com, and Booking Buddy. Here is a screen shot of both their site and ours when you land on the Key West page.

 

[Copperhead]

Hi everyone,
Long time lurker and aspiring innkeeper here
I just wanted to add my 2 cents in here about bedandbreakfast.com.
I recently planned a trip down to Key West and in my opinion, Trip Advisor is much more helpful than B&B.com. As a consumer I found B&B's site too commercialized and cheesy.
I would focus on improving my Trip Advisor ranking as opposed to paying such a large membership fee with B&B. When I looked for a place to stay I look for those with the most guest reviews and traveler photos. B&B just doesn't have the number of reviews that TA does and thus wasn't as useful. Besides that, obviously since not all inns are members at B&B.com, B&B doesn't list them all. As a consumer I don't like that. I like to have all the possible places in front of me, ranked by what other travelers think, not who pays the most for a top spot.
Maybe I'm weird but those are my thoughts! .

Is there anything about TripAdvisor besides the reviews that you like better?
We usually hear that innkeepers are frustrated - no link to their B&B's, no map (unless you are on Expedia through BB.com - and if you are not - your map link goes to a map of all properties around your inn except you), no amenities link, limited photos if any, the pages are literally covered with hotel advertising, and the reviews are often done by folks who have never stayed at a B&B before.
We understand we need more reviews to make consumers happy - that is for certain. We are over 50,000 reviews now and growing steadily - definitely an area of focus.
.

I hope I'm doing this right... this forum has me all confused because the posts are out of order. Is there any way to make them go in order based on date/time of post?
Anyway, RE: TripAdvisor... besides the reviews, the ranking is also someting I really like. Most of the time I go straight down the list for the area I'm traveling to. If I find a decent rate and a place with great reviews I don't continue to search. I might skim the other hotels in the area if there aren't too many but generally I'm sold already. Also, traveler photos are of utmost importance. Photos we take ourselves and retouch, or have professionally taken always highlight the best parts of the property. I like to see traveler photos because they're honest and don't try and cover any blemishes the property might have.
In general it might help to offer guests a 5% discount on their next stay if they go to TA and rate you. I would imagine if they're after the 5% discount they're not going to say it was horrible! LOL
.

I hope I'm doing this right... this forum has me all confused because the posts are out of order. Is there any way to make them go in order based on date/time of post?
Anyway, RE: TripAdvisor... besides the reviews, the ranking is also someting I really like. Most of the time I go straight down the list for the area I'm traveling to. If I find a decent rate and a place with great reviews I don't continue to search. I might skim the other hotels in the area if there aren't too many but generally I'm sold already. Also, traveler photos are of utmost importance. Photos we take ourselves and retouch, or have professionally taken always highlight the best parts of the property. I like to see traveler photos because they're honest and don't try and cover any blemishes the property might have.

I guess I'm putting on my industry hat here, because I do think Trip Advisor is a useful site... but I don't think Trip Advisor is the healthy, long-term solution for the industry. I don't think a site that offers no direct link to a property, no map (only shows non-B&B properties nearby to your property) is a very good consumer solution that benefits a B&B. IMHO Trip Advisor is taking information on B&B's, then saying to consumers - "don't book them... it is really hard... we don't even have links, you can't find out where they are... but HERE... take a look at all these easy-to-book hotels at cheap rates just around the corner. Feel free to check availability on them right here, get a low-price guarantee, etc."
This, to me, pulls business away from B&B's - it doesn't draw them to B&B's. Sure - everyone knows Hyatt exists, and Expedia exists - so I'm not anti-advertising at all, but NOT making it easy to book a B&B or find their information just reinforces to consumers that it is a pain to deal with a small property.
Imagine the process if you are looking for a property on a busy weekend...
1) Go to TA. Find list of properties in a city. Decide you don't want hotels and you want B&B's. Find one where you like the review. Great - I'm interested..
2) Open another browser, enter B&B name into Google.
3) See B&B listing in google - click on it.
4) Go back to B&B site, find map of B&B, figure out it isn't the location you want.
5) Go back to TA. Read more reviews find another you like, but it has three user photos of stain on the carpet because the guest that left that morning spilled coffee and there was only time to do a fast cleaning. Skip it.
6) Read more reviews, find 3rd B&B you like. Click on the map link.
7) Expedia window opens up showing you all hotels near to that B&B - but NOT that B&B.
8) Gee, this Marriott is pretty close to where I wanted to be, and I can check availability of all hotels with one click. That sounds good.... so I do - and find a few great deals.
9) But I really wanted a B&B... so I go to Google and type in the name of that B&B one more time and click through to their website.
10) Looks good, I check the map, looks okay - so I go to book. Ooops - no availability. Back to TA.
11) Okay - one last ditch effort before I book the Marriott... here is my 4th preference of a B&B. Map opens up to Expedia again - alright, tried that route.
12) Back to google. Enter property name, find it, click through to it, check availability. It is available - but it is $50 more per night than the Marriott, and it is a "request for a reservation..."
13) Okay - I'm booking that Marriott. This is getting too difficult.
That is the scenario we want to change. For starters - we want to allow B&B's to be bookable through Expedia so they show up on those maps... but more importantly we want to make it easy on BedandBreakfast.com for people to do that research without clicking all over the web to find out where properties are, what is available, etc. Consumer perception is that B&B's are hard to find, hard to book, and have varying service - when we as an industry change that - we will start to take more business from larger hotels. Until then we will have to continue to deal with the fact that 96% of the traveling public says they do not stay at B&B's.
Relying on Trip Advisor to change that is not, IMHO the solution to get that 96% number down to 92%. That seems pretty darn doable - and we would literally double the business going to B&B's while still having greater than 90% of Americans never consider them.
That is why we are trying to put the name "BedandBreakfast.com" in front of consumers in any way, shape, or form we can. Nothing about that name says "hotel," and nothing would make all of us happier than doubling the business to B&B's.
5) Repeat google search process, and
.

Hi there,
I'm not sure what you mean by no map. Every property, B&B or otherwise, is avaliable on a map, provided the address is on TA. For example, here's the Key West map:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocalMaps-g34345-Key_West-Area.html#a_reset:geo_34345:detail_34345:mw_1056:mh_562age_0:mt_h:mz_12:mc_24.55408,-81.801:cat_2:currency_USD:minrate_0:maxrate_9999999:umaxrate_9999999:class_
I hope that link works... if not, try this and select the B&B radio button:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocalMaps-g34345-Key_West-Area.html
If you mean when you click on "Map this hotel" then yes, you're right, that is a bad map because if it isn't listed with Expedia, it doesn't show up.
Re- Traveler photos... I don't really think anyone's going to do something like that UNLESS their stay was equally as bad. I know one property I looked at did have termite droppings on one of the pillows. The innkeeper replied saying that yes, that is what it was but the island does have lots of termites and they treat them as soon as possible. Well, that's fine and dandy but unacceptable, IMO. Here's the entire review and reply:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g34345-d324945-r16037059-Simonton_Court_Historic_Inn_and_Cottages-Key_West_Florida_Keys_Florida.html
Maybe it's just me, but like I said, B&B.com is not a pleasing site as a consumer to use. I find it very commercialized and tacky, and I think most people stay at a B&B to get away from the whole commercialization idea. The other factor I don't like, and I know I said it before, but they don't list everyone. Again, as a consumer it raises concerns and thus makes me dig deeper to find what else is out there.
All in all after seeing the rates they charge, my point is, coming from a consumer stand point I don't believe it's worth it for innkeepers.
I think I got the display right, thanks for the solution!
.

I really would not put TA in the same catagory as bandb.com.
TA is an overall travel site where you find information about a certain place or region including accommodations, attractions, eateries, tours and not only what they have, there is a forum to ask questions and get repsonses from others. While bandb.com is strictly an accommodations site.
I think that use depends on the traveler. Whether they are going to a place due to business or family or for a general vacation. TA provides an overall picture of the area along with reviews from travelers. But if I were looking for a B&B and was a directory type of searcher, I would be more prone to use one of the b&b directories such as bandb.com or bbonline to find the accommodation, not TA. For myself, I generally just do a Google search and view the inns websites directly.

 

[Copperhead]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?

 

[gillumhouse]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?

 

[Willowpondgj]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

I agree.

 

[JBanczak]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?

 

[swirt]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

It's an opt-in program. People sign up for hot deals for a specific region. Bandb.com couldn't spam their entire list to everyone who'd ever signed up. The list would be gigantic and unwieldy. My guess is that it would really turn people off.
{edited: oops just saw that John alread responded to this}
I think this is probably why the benefits from the hotdeal mailings are limited. The only true travellers that would sign up for this would be the ones who always go back to the same area and are looking for deals. AND if they have already found a great place to stay (repeat guests) they are less likely to be looking to have even seen hotdeals to sign up for. The others who sign up are just other innkeepers looking to keep tabs on other inns specials (that' why I'm signed up for my area)

 

[gillumhouse]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.

 

[JBanczak]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

Even with just links, it would be way too long to send out. We do however have a fairly large plan for Hot Deals. In includes:
1) Getting the list to be bigger - we have not really done enough to expand this list at all. We'll be putting together a much better member benefits package, higher sign-up rewards, etc. The list should be 1 million, not 80,000.
2) Reconfiguring the Hot Deals paramaters - they are too narrow right now and need to much maintenance. We need to have longer-ranger deals - part of the reason the list isn't long enough is that the deals are SO narrow (by our own requirements) that consumers don't find them appealing.
3) Distributing the Hot Deals through third parties. Similar to our distribution through Expedia for bookable rooms - there is no reason we are not using third parties to gain awareness. Sites like Travelzoo, or Travel Ticker, or Sherman's Travel have almost no B&B special offers and they are not set-up to handle small properties - we can change that.
Those are all part of the plans for this year and we are well underway on them.

 

[Willowpondgj]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

 

[JBanczak]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
.

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
.

I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
.

We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
.

Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
.

We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

 

[gillumhouse]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I just joined B&B.com in the last quarter of 2008 after dropping them over 3-4 years ago. Eric and John, you may be suprised by this but I renewed because of what I read on this forum. I was trying to justify scraping up the $349 dollars to join when it was announced that I could pay monthly and I signed up! Why? Because for the most part, even with the usual negative statements, there have been some very positive statements here about B&B.com. That and the fact that I am not blind, B&B.com does a great job in promoting their site, not only to innkeepers but to the general public.
Many of my colleagues have for years boosted their traffic from bbonline, so after looking at the price, I left B&B.com and went to them. Now I am on both and comparing them for the same time frame, so far I find them neck to neck in traffic to my site, yet bbonline has delivered 5 times the reservations. We all know that bbonline is less expensive, now almost 60% less when comparing the lowest linking packages, and they do not have all the additional bells and whistles that b&b.com has (most of it at extra expense). I will also tell you that my B&B.com listing is much more complete than my bbonline listing and more pleasent to the eye. So with everything that b&b.com does more of, why are't I experienceing more traffic to my site from them?
Maybe it is as Swirt says "In my estimation based on what I see while searching bandb.com based on their advertising, organic poisitioning and other programs like gift cards etc has gotten very close to the upper limit on potential inn guests."
Maybe they have reached the saturation point...and if that is so, then why would anyone continue to pay more and more each year for the same about of traffic? Yes we can pay even more by signing up for this program or that program in hopes to attract a few more ticks on the traffic stats and maybe another reservation or two. But for the most part, as Swirt puts it, everything is by the most part pulling from the same pool of potential guests.
And if Swirt is right, then maybe the response to John's statement "...that we should fire our staft, cut all advertising , quit releasing new products, stop attending tradeshows,..." would be yes, at least in part. Thus cutting some of the ever rising expense that is passed on to its members with membership increases.
Eric wrote: "... Our new offer for international members is less for international members because we drive less traffic to them - and therefore provide less value - and therefore charge less. It really is pretty simple and straightforward. ..." (50% less according to the post)
Instead of you get what you pay for, in this regard you pay for what you get. Simular to what John was bringing up - pay for click or pay per reservation. I do feel that some areas draw more traffic than others and with the theory previously stated, that traffic is at a saturation point. Thus the value is less. I want to further evaluate this theory and Eric's statements about less traffic, less value, less charge....
I do not have stats for B&B's through out different regions of the US, nor do I have access to this type of stats from bandb.com. I do however have the following which seems to shed a little light on the topic. BandB.com issues a Hot Deals reminder each week. The email states that they send out the Hot Deals email over 83,000 registered potential guests weekly. Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email. This makes me wonder about what % of the traffic BandB.com receives actually is for my region. Using this theory, maybe my region should be considered for a less costly rate....

Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.
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Now once a member goes to post their hot deal, down at the bottom of the page bandb.com lists the number of registered potential guests for YOUR region, which your hot deal will be sent. In my case that is 2400 of 83,000+ about 3% of the total registered to receive this email.
I had not realized that until you pointed it out. My number was a paltry 1400, a lot less than your even. I am getting happier and happier with my decision. I may wind up whistling to the bank from this.

I think that this may be one reason there has been so much negativity expressed here about the Hot Deals promotion and why it does not work, for the most of us. Anyone else want to put in their regions numbers?
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I think the Hot Deals should have been sent out in such a way that ALL of the supposed 83,000 would get ALL the Hot Deals. Just how did bandb decide who would be interested in MY Hot Deals? Perhaps someone from OUT of my region was planning a trip next week and MY Hot Deal would have brought them to me - but they did not know about it.... For this "benefit" I should pay $400 a year?
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We did not decide - consumers select their areas of travel interest. This way they do not receive an email with 1,000-2,000 offers each week, which would be a bit difficult to send and to digest. This is a pretty typical way for any travel site to do this.
Would you want to receive a 100 page email every week?
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Of course not, but couldn't it be a link so they could go to whre they are interested as in Hot Deals Link and then the user clicks on the State of interest? I just had no idea until now that the Hot Deals I spent so much time creating were only going to 1400 people. And now I understand why they were not ever used - I cannot remember if anyone here EVER had a Hot Deal used.... And trust me, some of my Deals were deep deals.
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We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.
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We've never had a bite from a hot deal.
I agree, the e-mail reminder to potential guests should go to a map where they can select a hot deal from any state in the US. It should not just be a sign up to only recieve hot deals from a specific area.
And now I'll wait for an answer with all the reasons why this cannot be done.

Well it can be this way, but it will not be this way because in my almost 20 years of marketing experience doing countless email campaigns with numerous companies - you learn what works and what doesn't. What we are doing now isn't working as well as it should, although there are plenty of properties that it works for. There is a pretty good method to these things though, but as I put in my last post we are not doing it as well as we can and we need to improve it.
And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.

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And now I'll wait for the usual answers with all the reasons why pointing out I don't know anything about marketing.
Tsk! Tsk! John. We have never, to my knowledge, accused you to be a dimbulb. I do believe everyone has given you the respect you deserve since you have been respectful of us as opposed to another. We are just asking if there is another way. You have said there is, just not the way we envision. OK, I accept that. No one said we had all the answers - we just look at opurselves as a think tank tossing out ideas to see what sticks to the wall.
We do not try to tel anyone else how to run their business. We just ask for fair prices and to be able to determine what each of us considers fair value for what we are told to pay.