Discussion of PAII's new site and PAII convention (moved)

[EmptyNest]

Back off BD!
I have as much right to express my opinion and experience as you do, without it being called a rant. It is not as simple as merely writing a management response, which I've done by the way. And yes, I do have many positive reviews and a decent score, in spite of that. So stop telling me to shut up and move on.
PAII made a big deal about ongoing meetings with Trip Advisor last year when I joined. I spent a lot of time submitting documentation about the incident, which by the way affects all of us. It had to do with Trip Advisor ignoring their own guidelines for submission of reviews and allowing something outrageous to be published. Not only that, they exploited it for their own gain. This is an area that PAII can and should be dealing with Trip Advisor about. If not them who? And I feel like I should be able to expect some type of resolution of the situation, which has yet to be forthcoming. Also, I was directed to speak with a board member about it and was disappointed at the response received.
You all have no problem holding other vendors accountable for their actions. Why is PAII exempt and treated like some "sacred cow" that no one can express an opinion about. I don't see you attacking Riki for her comments. You wouldn't have even gotten the information you did from Jay if it hadn't been for my comment..

EXACTLY what resolution are you expecting and how quickly? If it relates to wanting them to verify, check, validate, alter, or remove reviews, that is the longest shot of all the issues. You need to know that up front.
If their motto wasn't "Get the Truth, Then Go," there might be lower expectations for them to do anything about the reviews, because the motto implies they are the facilitator of truth. We know false reviews get on the site, which exacerbates matters. But the bottom line is (with regard to reviews) they don't have to do ANYTHING about them. But if we keep bringing up matters of right-and-wrong, we hope they'll take a balanced approach, instead of just a traveler-centric approach. A balanced approach, after all, would be better for their travelers in the long run.
We get held accountable just like vendors. I hear opinions good and bad about PAII every day of the year. It's just preferable when people couple their negative opinions with constructive thoughts, ideas, or suggestions.
.

The definition of advocacy I found is as follows "the act of arguing in favour of, or supporting something; the practice of supporting someone to make their voice heard," Since I took the time to document the incident and submit it at your request, I think some feedback should have been in order.
I called your office repeatedly in the beginning, as I was holding off on taking any legal action. I never was allowed to talk to you and got nothing but excuses from your staff. Then after being referred to a board member was told that they were satisfied with the situation as it is.
I also posted a question on your blog which was never answered, nor was my question on this forum. Since part of my dues goes to paying your salary, I think I have as much right to have my questions answered as anyone else.
Apparently others are happy with your level of advocacy because they don't have a serious issue. However, I do and this behavior on your part has hardly been professional. A simple letter stating that the issue was brought up and there was nothing that could be done would have been preferable to being constantly ignored.
.

When we announced that we were going to approach TripAdvisor about grievances in our industry last year, there was a monumentous onslaught of emails and communications from innkeepers all over the country. We invited the comments, and the response was overwhelming. Some sent us reports and summaries that were more than 20 pages long. Since this forum allows for anonymity, if you want to offline email me to remind me which B&B you are with, I might remember what you came to us about. If you are in NM, then I know who you are and my records show that I did communicate with you. I might not have closed the loop to your liking, because there is no way I could spend as much time on individual cases and grievances as some hoped, but we definitely were in touch one-on-one. I did my best to respond to as many of the hundreds of emails and phone calls as I could, but alas, I could not get to every one of them. The concept we put out there was to collect the stories and grievances and come up with a strategy to influence change in the name of fairness - not to take on any individual innkeeper's case. I'm sorry if I was difficult to reach and if I asked one of our volunteer leaders (I think our board vice chair) to reach out to you personally. I don't often do that, but felt you deserved to still speak with a leader of our organization, if not me. This is certainly the first time anyone has called me unprofessional.
I would like to know if you're still going to pursue legal action, since it has probably been months since you first brought your issue to PAII, and you indicate above that you were holding off on legal action until you got a response from PAII. What is your basis for a suit against TripAdvisor? What law are they breaking to your knowledge? We have no plans to sue them, because we have a decent understanding of the law that protects them. Many innkeepers say they want a class action suit - but no one seems to be able to share what the basis for such a suit might be. You seem to have done as much research or thinking about the issue as any innkeeper I've encountered. I'm always open to ideas and suggestions on different ways to approach situations. Any ideas? I asked above - exactly what resolution are you expecting to happen?
It seems we need to manage your high expectations about advocacy work. Lobbying efforts RARELY achieve desired results in a matter of months or even a year or two. And, as I mentioned before, this really isn't the same as lobbying government. TripAdvisor doesn't have to listen to me at all, but to their credit so far, they have. Small changes have been made. I still have my eyes on bigger changes. If one of your guests thought your inn was a terribly-run business and lobbied you to run it differently on behalf of all your guests, how often would you meet with that guest, how quickly would you implement changes they thought you should make? I encourage you to look at matters from all angles - not just yours.
It seems you have been burned and you want to fight fire with fire. And that's understandable, but my flame-thrower remains in the closet until a more appropriate reason surfaces.
This will be the last of my responses to SweetiePie on this matter on this forum. I have other work to attend to.
.

No one from PAII reached out to me I'm sad to say and I'm afraid this "blame the victim" attitude I've received from the responses to these posts has been quite unattractive as well. They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
If I treated my guests as a nuisance simply because they tried to communicate with me as PAII has done to me; I wouldn't have lasted as long as have in this business. I don't know where this arrogance comes from since the membership numbers certainly don't support it.
As far as communication goes, the fact that you have yet to respond to my question about dues; which I asked twice on this forum and specifically directed to you, speaks for itself. I guess T shirts are an acceptable topic, whereas dues are not.
Although you seem to have convinced your membership that they just have to live with Trip Advisor's actions as nothing can be done about them - that is simply not true. Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true. If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
.

Sweetie Pie, will you please give this a rest. If you have an issue with Jay or PAII, then call them up on the phone directly and don't air it all out here. We frankly are tired of hearing about it. Many of us don't agree with your assessment of Jay or PAII. It is not either of their responsibilities to deal with your TA issues. If you are so adamant about TA, get a lawyer and see if they can get TA to do something about your concerns.

 

[swirt]

Back off BD!
I have as much right to express my opinion and experience as you do, without it being called a rant. It is not as simple as merely writing a management response, which I've done by the way. And yes, I do have many positive reviews and a decent score, in spite of that. So stop telling me to shut up and move on.
PAII made a big deal about ongoing meetings with Trip Advisor last year when I joined. I spent a lot of time submitting documentation about the incident, which by the way affects all of us. It had to do with Trip Advisor ignoring their own guidelines for submission of reviews and allowing something outrageous to be published. Not only that, they exploited it for their own gain. This is an area that PAII can and should be dealing with Trip Advisor about. If not them who? And I feel like I should be able to expect some type of resolution of the situation, which has yet to be forthcoming. Also, I was directed to speak with a board member about it and was disappointed at the response received.
You all have no problem holding other vendors accountable for their actions. Why is PAII exempt and treated like some "sacred cow" that no one can express an opinion about. I don't see you attacking Riki for her comments. You wouldn't have even gotten the information you did from Jay if it hadn't been for my comment..

EXACTLY what resolution are you expecting and how quickly? If it relates to wanting them to verify, check, validate, alter, or remove reviews, that is the longest shot of all the issues. You need to know that up front.
If their motto wasn't "Get the Truth, Then Go," there might be lower expectations for them to do anything about the reviews, because the motto implies they are the facilitator of truth. We know false reviews get on the site, which exacerbates matters. But the bottom line is (with regard to reviews) they don't have to do ANYTHING about them. But if we keep bringing up matters of right-and-wrong, we hope they'll take a balanced approach, instead of just a traveler-centric approach. A balanced approach, after all, would be better for their travelers in the long run.
We get held accountable just like vendors. I hear opinions good and bad about PAII every day of the year. It's just preferable when people couple their negative opinions with constructive thoughts, ideas, or suggestions.
.

The definition of advocacy I found is as follows "the act of arguing in favour of, or supporting something; the practice of supporting someone to make their voice heard," Since I took the time to document the incident and submit it at your request, I think some feedback should have been in order.
I called your office repeatedly in the beginning, as I was holding off on taking any legal action. I never was allowed to talk to you and got nothing but excuses from your staff. Then after being referred to a board member was told that they were satisfied with the situation as it is.
I also posted a question on your blog which was never answered, nor was my question on this forum. Since part of my dues goes to paying your salary, I think I have as much right to have my questions answered as anyone else.
Apparently others are happy with your level of advocacy because they don't have a serious issue. However, I do and this behavior on your part has hardly been professional. A simple letter stating that the issue was brought up and there was nothing that could be done would have been preferable to being constantly ignored.
.

When we announced that we were going to approach TripAdvisor about grievances in our industry last year, there was a monumentous onslaught of emails and communications from innkeepers all over the country. We invited the comments, and the response was overwhelming. Some sent us reports and summaries that were more than 20 pages long. Since this forum allows for anonymity, if you want to offline email me to remind me which B&B you are with, I might remember what you came to us about. If you are in NM, then I know who you are and my records show that I did communicate with you. I might not have closed the loop to your liking, because there is no way I could spend as much time on individual cases and grievances as some hoped, but we definitely were in touch one-on-one. I did my best to respond to as many of the hundreds of emails and phone calls as I could, but alas, I could not get to every one of them. The concept we put out there was to collect the stories and grievances and come up with a strategy to influence change in the name of fairness - not to take on any individual innkeeper's case. I'm sorry if I was difficult to reach and if I asked one of our volunteer leaders (I think our board vice chair) to reach out to you personally. I don't often do that, but felt you deserved to still speak with a leader of our organization, if not me. This is certainly the first time anyone has called me unprofessional.
I would like to know if you're still going to pursue legal action, since it has probably been months since you first brought your issue to PAII, and you indicate above that you were holding off on legal action until you got a response from PAII. What is your basis for a suit against TripAdvisor? What law are they breaking to your knowledge? We have no plans to sue them, because we have a decent understanding of the law that protects them. Many innkeepers say they want a class action suit - but no one seems to be able to share what the basis for such a suit might be. You seem to have done as much research or thinking about the issue as any innkeeper I've encountered. I'm always open to ideas and suggestions on different ways to approach situations. Any ideas? I asked above - exactly what resolution are you expecting to happen?
It seems we need to manage your high expectations about advocacy work. Lobbying efforts RARELY achieve desired results in a matter of months or even a year or two. And, as I mentioned before, this really isn't the same as lobbying government. TripAdvisor doesn't have to listen to me at all, but to their credit so far, they have. Small changes have been made. I still have my eyes on bigger changes. If one of your guests thought your inn was a terribly-run business and lobbied you to run it differently on behalf of all your guests, how often would you meet with that guest, how quickly would you implement changes they thought you should make? I encourage you to look at matters from all angles - not just yours.
It seems you have been burned and you want to fight fire with fire. And that's understandable, but my flame-thrower remains in the closet until a more appropriate reason surfaces.
This will be the last of my responses to SweetiePie on this matter on this forum. I have other work to attend to.
.

No one from PAII reached out to me I'm sad to say and I'm afraid this "blame the victim" attitude I've received from the responses to these posts has been quite unattractive as well. They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
If I treated my guests as a nuisance simply because they tried to communicate with me as PAII has done to me; I wouldn't have lasted as long as have in this business. I don't know where this arrogance comes from since the membership numbers certainly don't support it.
As far as communication goes, the fact that you have yet to respond to my question about dues; which I asked twice on this forum and specifically directed to you, speaks for itself. I guess T shirts are an acceptable topic, whereas dues are not.
Although you seem to have convinced your membership that they just have to live with Trip Advisor's actions as nothing can be done about them - that is simply not true. Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true. If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
.

As far as communication goes, the fact that you have yet to respond to my question about dues; which I asked twice on this forum and specifically directed to you, speaks for itself.

What you get for your membership dues with PAII is described here.
Jay has asked the question twice, what kind of resolution you want. It would be easier if you just clearly stated that you want Jay to sue TripAdvisor for defamation on your behalf. Then he can clearly answer that individual lawsuits are not a service that PAII provides. Then we can put this to rest and you can carry on with your own lawsuit against TripAdvisor.

 

[swirt]

Back off BD!
I have as much right to express my opinion and experience as you do, without it being called a rant. It is not as simple as merely writing a management response, which I've done by the way. And yes, I do have many positive reviews and a decent score, in spite of that. So stop telling me to shut up and move on.
PAII made a big deal about ongoing meetings with Trip Advisor last year when I joined. I spent a lot of time submitting documentation about the incident, which by the way affects all of us. It had to do with Trip Advisor ignoring their own guidelines for submission of reviews and allowing something outrageous to be published. Not only that, they exploited it for their own gain. This is an area that PAII can and should be dealing with Trip Advisor about. If not them who? And I feel like I should be able to expect some type of resolution of the situation, which has yet to be forthcoming. Also, I was directed to speak with a board member about it and was disappointed at the response received.
You all have no problem holding other vendors accountable for their actions. Why is PAII exempt and treated like some "sacred cow" that no one can express an opinion about. I don't see you attacking Riki for her comments. You wouldn't have even gotten the information you did from Jay if it hadn't been for my comment..

EXACTLY what resolution are you expecting and how quickly? If it relates to wanting them to verify, check, validate, alter, or remove reviews, that is the longest shot of all the issues. You need to know that up front.
If their motto wasn't "Get the Truth, Then Go," there might be lower expectations for them to do anything about the reviews, because the motto implies they are the facilitator of truth. We know false reviews get on the site, which exacerbates matters. But the bottom line is (with regard to reviews) they don't have to do ANYTHING about them. But if we keep bringing up matters of right-and-wrong, we hope they'll take a balanced approach, instead of just a traveler-centric approach. A balanced approach, after all, would be better for their travelers in the long run.
We get held accountable just like vendors. I hear opinions good and bad about PAII every day of the year. It's just preferable when people couple their negative opinions with constructive thoughts, ideas, or suggestions.
.

The definition of advocacy I found is as follows "the act of arguing in favour of, or supporting something; the practice of supporting someone to make their voice heard," Since I took the time to document the incident and submit it at your request, I think some feedback should have been in order.
I called your office repeatedly in the beginning, as I was holding off on taking any legal action. I never was allowed to talk to you and got nothing but excuses from your staff. Then after being referred to a board member was told that they were satisfied with the situation as it is.
I also posted a question on your blog which was never answered, nor was my question on this forum. Since part of my dues goes to paying your salary, I think I have as much right to have my questions answered as anyone else.
Apparently others are happy with your level of advocacy because they don't have a serious issue. However, I do and this behavior on your part has hardly been professional. A simple letter stating that the issue was brought up and there was nothing that could be done would have been preferable to being constantly ignored.
.

When we announced that we were going to approach TripAdvisor about grievances in our industry last year, there was a monumentous onslaught of emails and communications from innkeepers all over the country. We invited the comments, and the response was overwhelming. Some sent us reports and summaries that were more than 20 pages long. Since this forum allows for anonymity, if you want to offline email me to remind me which B&B you are with, I might remember what you came to us about. If you are in NM, then I know who you are and my records show that I did communicate with you. I might not have closed the loop to your liking, because there is no way I could spend as much time on individual cases and grievances as some hoped, but we definitely were in touch one-on-one. I did my best to respond to as many of the hundreds of emails and phone calls as I could, but alas, I could not get to every one of them. The concept we put out there was to collect the stories and grievances and come up with a strategy to influence change in the name of fairness - not to take on any individual innkeeper's case. I'm sorry if I was difficult to reach and if I asked one of our volunteer leaders (I think our board vice chair) to reach out to you personally. I don't often do that, but felt you deserved to still speak with a leader of our organization, if not me. This is certainly the first time anyone has called me unprofessional.
I would like to know if you're still going to pursue legal action, since it has probably been months since you first brought your issue to PAII, and you indicate above that you were holding off on legal action until you got a response from PAII. What is your basis for a suit against TripAdvisor? What law are they breaking to your knowledge? We have no plans to sue them, because we have a decent understanding of the law that protects them. Many innkeepers say they want a class action suit - but no one seems to be able to share what the basis for such a suit might be. You seem to have done as much research or thinking about the issue as any innkeeper I've encountered. I'm always open to ideas and suggestions on different ways to approach situations. Any ideas? I asked above - exactly what resolution are you expecting to happen?
It seems we need to manage your high expectations about advocacy work. Lobbying efforts RARELY achieve desired results in a matter of months or even a year or two. And, as I mentioned before, this really isn't the same as lobbying government. TripAdvisor doesn't have to listen to me at all, but to their credit so far, they have. Small changes have been made. I still have my eyes on bigger changes. If one of your guests thought your inn was a terribly-run business and lobbied you to run it differently on behalf of all your guests, how often would you meet with that guest, how quickly would you implement changes they thought you should make? I encourage you to look at matters from all angles - not just yours.
It seems you have been burned and you want to fight fire with fire. And that's understandable, but my flame-thrower remains in the closet until a more appropriate reason surfaces.
This will be the last of my responses to SweetiePie on this matter on this forum. I have other work to attend to.
.

No one from PAII reached out to me I'm sad to say and I'm afraid this "blame the victim" attitude I've received from the responses to these posts has been quite unattractive as well. They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
If I treated my guests as a nuisance simply because they tried to communicate with me as PAII has done to me; I wouldn't have lasted as long as have in this business. I don't know where this arrogance comes from since the membership numbers certainly don't support it.
As far as communication goes, the fact that you have yet to respond to my question about dues; which I asked twice on this forum and specifically directed to you, speaks for itself. I guess T shirts are an acceptable topic, whereas dues are not.
Although you seem to have convinced your membership that they just have to live with Trip Advisor's actions as nothing can be done about them - that is simply not true. Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true. If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
.

If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
Presssure them with what? PAII is not in a position to pressureTA because they have no leverage. They can't threaten to take their members and leave TA because TA is not something you join. All Jay can do effectively is keep bending their ear so that they consider our side of things from time to time. He can't go in strong-arming them because he has no leverage legally or financially so they will just ignore him and refuse to meet with him. This would benefit no-one. Not even you.
They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
I don't think anyone is trying to demonize you, that is just a possible side effect of hearing you make the claims over and over again, but never really giving enough details to see the potential case as clearly as you do.
Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true.
Sort of. It is completely actionable legally as long as you can prove what is being said is not true.
If you want to present the details here (in a new thread please) there may be enough people here to give you another point of view that will either strengthen your case and yoru resolve, or help you see you are tilting at windmills.

 

[user 26]

too much money for me as well.
i had a hard time meeting overhead expenses and struggled constantly. that's what happens when you try to turn a wreck of a building into a b&b ~~ the constant repairs etc. were $$$.
i can see the value of getting together with other innkeepers, brainstorming, listening to strategies, attending lectures, browsing the merchants & fending off the vendors (sorry ~ but i've experience with this) but could not come up with the money to attend, never mind the air fare and accomodations and meals .... and loss of income from the b&b unless i could hire an innsitter.

 

[happykeeper]

Back off BD!
I have as much right to express my opinion and experience as you do, without it being called a rant. It is not as simple as merely writing a management response, which I've done by the way. And yes, I do have many positive reviews and a decent score, in spite of that. So stop telling me to shut up and move on.
PAII made a big deal about ongoing meetings with Trip Advisor last year when I joined. I spent a lot of time submitting documentation about the incident, which by the way affects all of us. It had to do with Trip Advisor ignoring their own guidelines for submission of reviews and allowing something outrageous to be published. Not only that, they exploited it for their own gain. This is an area that PAII can and should be dealing with Trip Advisor about. If not them who? And I feel like I should be able to expect some type of resolution of the situation, which has yet to be forthcoming. Also, I was directed to speak with a board member about it and was disappointed at the response received.
You all have no problem holding other vendors accountable for their actions. Why is PAII exempt and treated like some "sacred cow" that no one can express an opinion about. I don't see you attacking Riki for her comments. You wouldn't have even gotten the information you did from Jay if it hadn't been for my comment..

EXACTLY what resolution are you expecting and how quickly? If it relates to wanting them to verify, check, validate, alter, or remove reviews, that is the longest shot of all the issues. You need to know that up front.
If their motto wasn't "Get the Truth, Then Go," there might be lower expectations for them to do anything about the reviews, because the motto implies they are the facilitator of truth. We know false reviews get on the site, which exacerbates matters. But the bottom line is (with regard to reviews) they don't have to do ANYTHING about them. But if we keep bringing up matters of right-and-wrong, we hope they'll take a balanced approach, instead of just a traveler-centric approach. A balanced approach, after all, would be better for their travelers in the long run.
We get held accountable just like vendors. I hear opinions good and bad about PAII every day of the year. It's just preferable when people couple their negative opinions with constructive thoughts, ideas, or suggestions.
.

The definition of advocacy I found is as follows "the act of arguing in favour of, or supporting something; the practice of supporting someone to make their voice heard," Since I took the time to document the incident and submit it at your request, I think some feedback should have been in order.
I called your office repeatedly in the beginning, as I was holding off on taking any legal action. I never was allowed to talk to you and got nothing but excuses from your staff. Then after being referred to a board member was told that they were satisfied with the situation as it is.
I also posted a question on your blog which was never answered, nor was my question on this forum. Since part of my dues goes to paying your salary, I think I have as much right to have my questions answered as anyone else.
Apparently others are happy with your level of advocacy because they don't have a serious issue. However, I do and this behavior on your part has hardly been professional. A simple letter stating that the issue was brought up and there was nothing that could be done would have been preferable to being constantly ignored.
.

When we announced that we were going to approach TripAdvisor about grievances in our industry last year, there was a monumentous onslaught of emails and communications from innkeepers all over the country. We invited the comments, and the response was overwhelming. Some sent us reports and summaries that were more than 20 pages long. Since this forum allows for anonymity, if you want to offline email me to remind me which B&B you are with, I might remember what you came to us about. If you are in NM, then I know who you are and my records show that I did communicate with you. I might not have closed the loop to your liking, because there is no way I could spend as much time on individual cases and grievances as some hoped, but we definitely were in touch one-on-one. I did my best to respond to as many of the hundreds of emails and phone calls as I could, but alas, I could not get to every one of them. The concept we put out there was to collect the stories and grievances and come up with a strategy to influence change in the name of fairness - not to take on any individual innkeeper's case. I'm sorry if I was difficult to reach and if I asked one of our volunteer leaders (I think our board vice chair) to reach out to you personally. I don't often do that, but felt you deserved to still speak with a leader of our organization, if not me. This is certainly the first time anyone has called me unprofessional.
I would like to know if you're still going to pursue legal action, since it has probably been months since you first brought your issue to PAII, and you indicate above that you were holding off on legal action until you got a response from PAII. What is your basis for a suit against TripAdvisor? What law are they breaking to your knowledge? We have no plans to sue them, because we have a decent understanding of the law that protects them. Many innkeepers say they want a class action suit - but no one seems to be able to share what the basis for such a suit might be. You seem to have done as much research or thinking about the issue as any innkeeper I've encountered. I'm always open to ideas and suggestions on different ways to approach situations. Any ideas? I asked above - exactly what resolution are you expecting to happen?
It seems we need to manage your high expectations about advocacy work. Lobbying efforts RARELY achieve desired results in a matter of months or even a year or two. And, as I mentioned before, this really isn't the same as lobbying government. TripAdvisor doesn't have to listen to me at all, but to their credit so far, they have. Small changes have been made. I still have my eyes on bigger changes. If one of your guests thought your inn was a terribly-run business and lobbied you to run it differently on behalf of all your guests, how often would you meet with that guest, how quickly would you implement changes they thought you should make? I encourage you to look at matters from all angles - not just yours.
It seems you have been burned and you want to fight fire with fire. And that's understandable, but my flame-thrower remains in the closet until a more appropriate reason surfaces.
This will be the last of my responses to SweetiePie on this matter on this forum. I have other work to attend to.
.

No one from PAII reached out to me I'm sad to say and I'm afraid this "blame the victim" attitude I've received from the responses to these posts has been quite unattractive as well. They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
If I treated my guests as a nuisance simply because they tried to communicate with me as PAII has done to me; I wouldn't have lasted as long as have in this business. I don't know where this arrogance comes from since the membership numbers certainly don't support it.
As far as communication goes, the fact that you have yet to respond to my question about dues; which I asked twice on this forum and specifically directed to you, speaks for itself. I guess T shirts are an acceptable topic, whereas dues are not.
Although you seem to have convinced your membership that they just have to live with Trip Advisor's actions as nothing can be done about them - that is simply not true. Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true. If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
.

If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
Presssure them with what? PAII is not in a position to pressureTA because they have no leverage. They can't threaten to take their members and leave TA because TA is not something you join. All Jay can do effectively is keep bending their ear so that they consider our side of things from time to time. He can't go in strong-arming them because he has no leverage legally or financially so they will just ignore him and refuse to meet with him. This would benefit no-one. Not even you.
They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
I don't think anyone is trying to demonize you, that is just a possible side effect of hearing you make the claims over and over again, but never really giving enough details to see the potential case as clearly as you do.
Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true.
Sort of. It is completely actionable legally as long as you can prove what is being said is not true.
If you want to present the details here (in a new thread please) there may be enough people here to give you another point of view that will either strengthen your case and yoru resolve, or help you see you are tilting at windmills.
.

tilting at windmills.

I love that! Not related to the topic but its like I must have heard that as a kid.

 

[swirt]

Back off BD!
I have as much right to express my opinion and experience as you do, without it being called a rant. It is not as simple as merely writing a management response, which I've done by the way. And yes, I do have many positive reviews and a decent score, in spite of that. So stop telling me to shut up and move on.
PAII made a big deal about ongoing meetings with Trip Advisor last year when I joined. I spent a lot of time submitting documentation about the incident, which by the way affects all of us. It had to do with Trip Advisor ignoring their own guidelines for submission of reviews and allowing something outrageous to be published. Not only that, they exploited it for their own gain. This is an area that PAII can and should be dealing with Trip Advisor about. If not them who? And I feel like I should be able to expect some type of resolution of the situation, which has yet to be forthcoming. Also, I was directed to speak with a board member about it and was disappointed at the response received.
You all have no problem holding other vendors accountable for their actions. Why is PAII exempt and treated like some "sacred cow" that no one can express an opinion about. I don't see you attacking Riki for her comments. You wouldn't have even gotten the information you did from Jay if it hadn't been for my comment..

EXACTLY what resolution are you expecting and how quickly? If it relates to wanting them to verify, check, validate, alter, or remove reviews, that is the longest shot of all the issues. You need to know that up front.
If their motto wasn't "Get the Truth, Then Go," there might be lower expectations for them to do anything about the reviews, because the motto implies they are the facilitator of truth. We know false reviews get on the site, which exacerbates matters. But the bottom line is (with regard to reviews) they don't have to do ANYTHING about them. But if we keep bringing up matters of right-and-wrong, we hope they'll take a balanced approach, instead of just a traveler-centric approach. A balanced approach, after all, would be better for their travelers in the long run.
We get held accountable just like vendors. I hear opinions good and bad about PAII every day of the year. It's just preferable when people couple their negative opinions with constructive thoughts, ideas, or suggestions.
.

The definition of advocacy I found is as follows "the act of arguing in favour of, or supporting something; the practice of supporting someone to make their voice heard," Since I took the time to document the incident and submit it at your request, I think some feedback should have been in order.
I called your office repeatedly in the beginning, as I was holding off on taking any legal action. I never was allowed to talk to you and got nothing but excuses from your staff. Then after being referred to a board member was told that they were satisfied with the situation as it is.
I also posted a question on your blog which was never answered, nor was my question on this forum. Since part of my dues goes to paying your salary, I think I have as much right to have my questions answered as anyone else.
Apparently others are happy with your level of advocacy because they don't have a serious issue. However, I do and this behavior on your part has hardly been professional. A simple letter stating that the issue was brought up and there was nothing that could be done would have been preferable to being constantly ignored.
.

When we announced that we were going to approach TripAdvisor about grievances in our industry last year, there was a monumentous onslaught of emails and communications from innkeepers all over the country. We invited the comments, and the response was overwhelming. Some sent us reports and summaries that were more than 20 pages long. Since this forum allows for anonymity, if you want to offline email me to remind me which B&B you are with, I might remember what you came to us about. If you are in NM, then I know who you are and my records show that I did communicate with you. I might not have closed the loop to your liking, because there is no way I could spend as much time on individual cases and grievances as some hoped, but we definitely were in touch one-on-one. I did my best to respond to as many of the hundreds of emails and phone calls as I could, but alas, I could not get to every one of them. The concept we put out there was to collect the stories and grievances and come up with a strategy to influence change in the name of fairness - not to take on any individual innkeeper's case. I'm sorry if I was difficult to reach and if I asked one of our volunteer leaders (I think our board vice chair) to reach out to you personally. I don't often do that, but felt you deserved to still speak with a leader of our organization, if not me. This is certainly the first time anyone has called me unprofessional.
I would like to know if you're still going to pursue legal action, since it has probably been months since you first brought your issue to PAII, and you indicate above that you were holding off on legal action until you got a response from PAII. What is your basis for a suit against TripAdvisor? What law are they breaking to your knowledge? We have no plans to sue them, because we have a decent understanding of the law that protects them. Many innkeepers say they want a class action suit - but no one seems to be able to share what the basis for such a suit might be. You seem to have done as much research or thinking about the issue as any innkeeper I've encountered. I'm always open to ideas and suggestions on different ways to approach situations. Any ideas? I asked above - exactly what resolution are you expecting to happen?
It seems we need to manage your high expectations about advocacy work. Lobbying efforts RARELY achieve desired results in a matter of months or even a year or two. And, as I mentioned before, this really isn't the same as lobbying government. TripAdvisor doesn't have to listen to me at all, but to their credit so far, they have. Small changes have been made. I still have my eyes on bigger changes. If one of your guests thought your inn was a terribly-run business and lobbied you to run it differently on behalf of all your guests, how often would you meet with that guest, how quickly would you implement changes they thought you should make? I encourage you to look at matters from all angles - not just yours.
It seems you have been burned and you want to fight fire with fire. And that's understandable, but my flame-thrower remains in the closet until a more appropriate reason surfaces.
This will be the last of my responses to SweetiePie on this matter on this forum. I have other work to attend to.
.

No one from PAII reached out to me I'm sad to say and I'm afraid this "blame the victim" attitude I've received from the responses to these posts has been quite unattractive as well. They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
If I treated my guests as a nuisance simply because they tried to communicate with me as PAII has done to me; I wouldn't have lasted as long as have in this business. I don't know where this arrogance comes from since the membership numbers certainly don't support it.
As far as communication goes, the fact that you have yet to respond to my question about dues; which I asked twice on this forum and specifically directed to you, speaks for itself. I guess T shirts are an acceptable topic, whereas dues are not.
Although you seem to have convinced your membership that they just have to live with Trip Advisor's actions as nothing can be done about them - that is simply not true. Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true. If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
.

If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
Presssure them with what? PAII is not in a position to pressureTA because they have no leverage. They can't threaten to take their members and leave TA because TA is not something you join. All Jay can do effectively is keep bending their ear so that they consider our side of things from time to time. He can't go in strong-arming them because he has no leverage legally or financially so they will just ignore him and refuse to meet with him. This would benefit no-one. Not even you.
They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
I don't think anyone is trying to demonize you, that is just a possible side effect of hearing you make the claims over and over again, but never really giving enough details to see the potential case as clearly as you do.
Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true.
Sort of. It is completely actionable legally as long as you can prove what is being said is not true.
If you want to present the details here (in a new thread please) there may be enough people here to give you another point of view that will either strengthen your case and yoru resolve, or help you see you are tilting at windmills.
.

tilting at windmills.

I love that! Not related to the topic but its like I must have heard that as a kid.
.

tilting at windmills.

I love that! Not related to the topic but its like I must have heard that as a kid.

LOL Yah my uncle Don used that one a lot.

 

[muirford]

Back off BD!
I have as much right to express my opinion and experience as you do, without it being called a rant. It is not as simple as merely writing a management response, which I've done by the way. And yes, I do have many positive reviews and a decent score, in spite of that. So stop telling me to shut up and move on.
PAII made a big deal about ongoing meetings with Trip Advisor last year when I joined. I spent a lot of time submitting documentation about the incident, which by the way affects all of us. It had to do with Trip Advisor ignoring their own guidelines for submission of reviews and allowing something outrageous to be published. Not only that, they exploited it for their own gain. This is an area that PAII can and should be dealing with Trip Advisor about. If not them who? And I feel like I should be able to expect some type of resolution of the situation, which has yet to be forthcoming. Also, I was directed to speak with a board member about it and was disappointed at the response received.
You all have no problem holding other vendors accountable for their actions. Why is PAII exempt and treated like some "sacred cow" that no one can express an opinion about. I don't see you attacking Riki for her comments. You wouldn't have even gotten the information you did from Jay if it hadn't been for my comment..

EXACTLY what resolution are you expecting and how quickly? If it relates to wanting them to verify, check, validate, alter, or remove reviews, that is the longest shot of all the issues. You need to know that up front.
If their motto wasn't "Get the Truth, Then Go," there might be lower expectations for them to do anything about the reviews, because the motto implies they are the facilitator of truth. We know false reviews get on the site, which exacerbates matters. But the bottom line is (with regard to reviews) they don't have to do ANYTHING about them. But if we keep bringing up matters of right-and-wrong, we hope they'll take a balanced approach, instead of just a traveler-centric approach. A balanced approach, after all, would be better for their travelers in the long run.
We get held accountable just like vendors. I hear opinions good and bad about PAII every day of the year. It's just preferable when people couple their negative opinions with constructive thoughts, ideas, or suggestions.
.

The definition of advocacy I found is as follows "the act of arguing in favour of, or supporting something; the practice of supporting someone to make their voice heard," Since I took the time to document the incident and submit it at your request, I think some feedback should have been in order.
I called your office repeatedly in the beginning, as I was holding off on taking any legal action. I never was allowed to talk to you and got nothing but excuses from your staff. Then after being referred to a board member was told that they were satisfied with the situation as it is.
I also posted a question on your blog which was never answered, nor was my question on this forum. Since part of my dues goes to paying your salary, I think I have as much right to have my questions answered as anyone else.
Apparently others are happy with your level of advocacy because they don't have a serious issue. However, I do and this behavior on your part has hardly been professional. A simple letter stating that the issue was brought up and there was nothing that could be done would have been preferable to being constantly ignored.
.

When we announced that we were going to approach TripAdvisor about grievances in our industry last year, there was a monumentous onslaught of emails and communications from innkeepers all over the country. We invited the comments, and the response was overwhelming. Some sent us reports and summaries that were more than 20 pages long. Since this forum allows for anonymity, if you want to offline email me to remind me which B&B you are with, I might remember what you came to us about. If you are in NM, then I know who you are and my records show that I did communicate with you. I might not have closed the loop to your liking, because there is no way I could spend as much time on individual cases and grievances as some hoped, but we definitely were in touch one-on-one. I did my best to respond to as many of the hundreds of emails and phone calls as I could, but alas, I could not get to every one of them. The concept we put out there was to collect the stories and grievances and come up with a strategy to influence change in the name of fairness - not to take on any individual innkeeper's case. I'm sorry if I was difficult to reach and if I asked one of our volunteer leaders (I think our board vice chair) to reach out to you personally. I don't often do that, but felt you deserved to still speak with a leader of our organization, if not me. This is certainly the first time anyone has called me unprofessional.
I would like to know if you're still going to pursue legal action, since it has probably been months since you first brought your issue to PAII, and you indicate above that you were holding off on legal action until you got a response from PAII. What is your basis for a suit against TripAdvisor? What law are they breaking to your knowledge? We have no plans to sue them, because we have a decent understanding of the law that protects them. Many innkeepers say they want a class action suit - but no one seems to be able to share what the basis for such a suit might be. You seem to have done as much research or thinking about the issue as any innkeeper I've encountered. I'm always open to ideas and suggestions on different ways to approach situations. Any ideas? I asked above - exactly what resolution are you expecting to happen?
It seems we need to manage your high expectations about advocacy work. Lobbying efforts RARELY achieve desired results in a matter of months or even a year or two. And, as I mentioned before, this really isn't the same as lobbying government. TripAdvisor doesn't have to listen to me at all, but to their credit so far, they have. Small changes have been made. I still have my eyes on bigger changes. If one of your guests thought your inn was a terribly-run business and lobbied you to run it differently on behalf of all your guests, how often would you meet with that guest, how quickly would you implement changes they thought you should make? I encourage you to look at matters from all angles - not just yours.
It seems you have been burned and you want to fight fire with fire. And that's understandable, but my flame-thrower remains in the closet until a more appropriate reason surfaces.
This will be the last of my responses to SweetiePie on this matter on this forum. I have other work to attend to.
.

No one from PAII reached out to me I'm sad to say and I'm afraid this "blame the victim" attitude I've received from the responses to these posts has been quite unattractive as well. They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
If I treated my guests as a nuisance simply because they tried to communicate with me as PAII has done to me; I wouldn't have lasted as long as have in this business. I don't know where this arrogance comes from since the membership numbers certainly don't support it.
As far as communication goes, the fact that you have yet to respond to my question about dues; which I asked twice on this forum and specifically directed to you, speaks for itself. I guess T shirts are an acceptable topic, whereas dues are not.
Although you seem to have convinced your membership that they just have to live with Trip Advisor's actions as nothing can be done about them - that is simply not true. Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true. If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
.

If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
Presssure them with what? PAII is not in a position to pressureTA because they have no leverage. They can't threaten to take their members and leave TA because TA is not something you join. All Jay can do effectively is keep bending their ear so that they consider our side of things from time to time. He can't go in strong-arming them because he has no leverage legally or financially so they will just ignore him and refuse to meet with him. This would benefit no-one. Not even you.
They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
I don't think anyone is trying to demonize you, that is just a possible side effect of hearing you make the claims over and over again, but never really giving enough details to see the potential case as clearly as you do.
Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true.
Sort of. It is completely actionable legally as long as you can prove what is being said is not true.
If you want to present the details here (in a new thread please) there may be enough people here to give you another point of view that will either strengthen your case and yoru resolve, or help you see you are tilting at windmills.
.

tilting at windmills.

I love that! Not related to the topic but its like I must have heard that as a kid.
.

tilting at windmills.

I love that! Not related to the topic but its like I must have heard that as a kid.

LOL Yah my uncle Don used that one a lot.
.

LOL Yah my uncle Don used that one a lot.

the uncle from La Mancha?

 

[happykeeper]

Back off BD!
I have as much right to express my opinion and experience as you do, without it being called a rant. It is not as simple as merely writing a management response, which I've done by the way. And yes, I do have many positive reviews and a decent score, in spite of that. So stop telling me to shut up and move on.
PAII made a big deal about ongoing meetings with Trip Advisor last year when I joined. I spent a lot of time submitting documentation about the incident, which by the way affects all of us. It had to do with Trip Advisor ignoring their own guidelines for submission of reviews and allowing something outrageous to be published. Not only that, they exploited it for their own gain. This is an area that PAII can and should be dealing with Trip Advisor about. If not them who? And I feel like I should be able to expect some type of resolution of the situation, which has yet to be forthcoming. Also, I was directed to speak with a board member about it and was disappointed at the response received.
You all have no problem holding other vendors accountable for their actions. Why is PAII exempt and treated like some "sacred cow" that no one can express an opinion about. I don't see you attacking Riki for her comments. You wouldn't have even gotten the information you did from Jay if it hadn't been for my comment..

EXACTLY what resolution are you expecting and how quickly? If it relates to wanting them to verify, check, validate, alter, or remove reviews, that is the longest shot of all the issues. You need to know that up front.
If their motto wasn't "Get the Truth, Then Go," there might be lower expectations for them to do anything about the reviews, because the motto implies they are the facilitator of truth. We know false reviews get on the site, which exacerbates matters. But the bottom line is (with regard to reviews) they don't have to do ANYTHING about them. But if we keep bringing up matters of right-and-wrong, we hope they'll take a balanced approach, instead of just a traveler-centric approach. A balanced approach, after all, would be better for their travelers in the long run.
We get held accountable just like vendors. I hear opinions good and bad about PAII every day of the year. It's just preferable when people couple their negative opinions with constructive thoughts, ideas, or suggestions.
.

The definition of advocacy I found is as follows "the act of arguing in favour of, or supporting something; the practice of supporting someone to make their voice heard," Since I took the time to document the incident and submit it at your request, I think some feedback should have been in order.
I called your office repeatedly in the beginning, as I was holding off on taking any legal action. I never was allowed to talk to you and got nothing but excuses from your staff. Then after being referred to a board member was told that they were satisfied with the situation as it is.
I also posted a question on your blog which was never answered, nor was my question on this forum. Since part of my dues goes to paying your salary, I think I have as much right to have my questions answered as anyone else.
Apparently others are happy with your level of advocacy because they don't have a serious issue. However, I do and this behavior on your part has hardly been professional. A simple letter stating that the issue was brought up and there was nothing that could be done would have been preferable to being constantly ignored.
.

When we announced that we were going to approach TripAdvisor about grievances in our industry last year, there was a monumentous onslaught of emails and communications from innkeepers all over the country. We invited the comments, and the response was overwhelming. Some sent us reports and summaries that were more than 20 pages long. Since this forum allows for anonymity, if you want to offline email me to remind me which B&B you are with, I might remember what you came to us about. If you are in NM, then I know who you are and my records show that I did communicate with you. I might not have closed the loop to your liking, because there is no way I could spend as much time on individual cases and grievances as some hoped, but we definitely were in touch one-on-one. I did my best to respond to as many of the hundreds of emails and phone calls as I could, but alas, I could not get to every one of them. The concept we put out there was to collect the stories and grievances and come up with a strategy to influence change in the name of fairness - not to take on any individual innkeeper's case. I'm sorry if I was difficult to reach and if I asked one of our volunteer leaders (I think our board vice chair) to reach out to you personally. I don't often do that, but felt you deserved to still speak with a leader of our organization, if not me. This is certainly the first time anyone has called me unprofessional.
I would like to know if you're still going to pursue legal action, since it has probably been months since you first brought your issue to PAII, and you indicate above that you were holding off on legal action until you got a response from PAII. What is your basis for a suit against TripAdvisor? What law are they breaking to your knowledge? We have no plans to sue them, because we have a decent understanding of the law that protects them. Many innkeepers say they want a class action suit - but no one seems to be able to share what the basis for such a suit might be. You seem to have done as much research or thinking about the issue as any innkeeper I've encountered. I'm always open to ideas and suggestions on different ways to approach situations. Any ideas? I asked above - exactly what resolution are you expecting to happen?
It seems we need to manage your high expectations about advocacy work. Lobbying efforts RARELY achieve desired results in a matter of months or even a year or two. And, as I mentioned before, this really isn't the same as lobbying government. TripAdvisor doesn't have to listen to me at all, but to their credit so far, they have. Small changes have been made. I still have my eyes on bigger changes. If one of your guests thought your inn was a terribly-run business and lobbied you to run it differently on behalf of all your guests, how often would you meet with that guest, how quickly would you implement changes they thought you should make? I encourage you to look at matters from all angles - not just yours.
It seems you have been burned and you want to fight fire with fire. And that's understandable, but my flame-thrower remains in the closet until a more appropriate reason surfaces.
This will be the last of my responses to SweetiePie on this matter on this forum. I have other work to attend to.
.

No one from PAII reached out to me I'm sad to say and I'm afraid this "blame the victim" attitude I've received from the responses to these posts has been quite unattractive as well. They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
If I treated my guests as a nuisance simply because they tried to communicate with me as PAII has done to me; I wouldn't have lasted as long as have in this business. I don't know where this arrogance comes from since the membership numbers certainly don't support it.
As far as communication goes, the fact that you have yet to respond to my question about dues; which I asked twice on this forum and specifically directed to you, speaks for itself. I guess T shirts are an acceptable topic, whereas dues are not.
Although you seem to have convinced your membership that they just have to live with Trip Advisor's actions as nothing can be done about them - that is simply not true. Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true. If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
.

If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
Presssure them with what? PAII is not in a position to pressureTA because they have no leverage. They can't threaten to take their members and leave TA because TA is not something you join. All Jay can do effectively is keep bending their ear so that they consider our side of things from time to time. He can't go in strong-arming them because he has no leverage legally or financially so they will just ignore him and refuse to meet with him. This would benefit no-one. Not even you.
They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
I don't think anyone is trying to demonize you, that is just a possible side effect of hearing you make the claims over and over again, but never really giving enough details to see the potential case as clearly as you do.
Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true.
Sort of. It is completely actionable legally as long as you can prove what is being said is not true.
If you want to present the details here (in a new thread please) there may be enough people here to give you another point of view that will either strengthen your case and yoru resolve, or help you see you are tilting at windmills.
.

tilting at windmills.

I love that! Not related to the topic but its like I must have heard that as a kid.
.

tilting at windmills.

I love that! Not related to the topic but its like I must have heard that as a kid.

LOL Yah my uncle Don used that one a lot.
.

LOL Yah my uncle Don used that one a lot.

the uncle from La Mancha?
.

I had to look that up! So Swirts Uncle is Don Quixote?! Who knew?

 

[muirford]

Back off BD!
I have as much right to express my opinion and experience as you do, without it being called a rant. It is not as simple as merely writing a management response, which I've done by the way. And yes, I do have many positive reviews and a decent score, in spite of that. So stop telling me to shut up and move on.
PAII made a big deal about ongoing meetings with Trip Advisor last year when I joined. I spent a lot of time submitting documentation about the incident, which by the way affects all of us. It had to do with Trip Advisor ignoring their own guidelines for submission of reviews and allowing something outrageous to be published. Not only that, they exploited it for their own gain. This is an area that PAII can and should be dealing with Trip Advisor about. If not them who? And I feel like I should be able to expect some type of resolution of the situation, which has yet to be forthcoming. Also, I was directed to speak with a board member about it and was disappointed at the response received.
You all have no problem holding other vendors accountable for their actions. Why is PAII exempt and treated like some "sacred cow" that no one can express an opinion about. I don't see you attacking Riki for her comments. You wouldn't have even gotten the information you did from Jay if it hadn't been for my comment..

EXACTLY what resolution are you expecting and how quickly? If it relates to wanting them to verify, check, validate, alter, or remove reviews, that is the longest shot of all the issues. You need to know that up front.
If their motto wasn't "Get the Truth, Then Go," there might be lower expectations for them to do anything about the reviews, because the motto implies they are the facilitator of truth. We know false reviews get on the site, which exacerbates matters. But the bottom line is (with regard to reviews) they don't have to do ANYTHING about them. But if we keep bringing up matters of right-and-wrong, we hope they'll take a balanced approach, instead of just a traveler-centric approach. A balanced approach, after all, would be better for their travelers in the long run.
We get held accountable just like vendors. I hear opinions good and bad about PAII every day of the year. It's just preferable when people couple their negative opinions with constructive thoughts, ideas, or suggestions.
.

The definition of advocacy I found is as follows "the act of arguing in favour of, or supporting something; the practice of supporting someone to make their voice heard," Since I took the time to document the incident and submit it at your request, I think some feedback should have been in order.
I called your office repeatedly in the beginning, as I was holding off on taking any legal action. I never was allowed to talk to you and got nothing but excuses from your staff. Then after being referred to a board member was told that they were satisfied with the situation as it is.
I also posted a question on your blog which was never answered, nor was my question on this forum. Since part of my dues goes to paying your salary, I think I have as much right to have my questions answered as anyone else.
Apparently others are happy with your level of advocacy because they don't have a serious issue. However, I do and this behavior on your part has hardly been professional. A simple letter stating that the issue was brought up and there was nothing that could be done would have been preferable to being constantly ignored.
.

When we announced that we were going to approach TripAdvisor about grievances in our industry last year, there was a monumentous onslaught of emails and communications from innkeepers all over the country. We invited the comments, and the response was overwhelming. Some sent us reports and summaries that were more than 20 pages long. Since this forum allows for anonymity, if you want to offline email me to remind me which B&B you are with, I might remember what you came to us about. If you are in NM, then I know who you are and my records show that I did communicate with you. I might not have closed the loop to your liking, because there is no way I could spend as much time on individual cases and grievances as some hoped, but we definitely were in touch one-on-one. I did my best to respond to as many of the hundreds of emails and phone calls as I could, but alas, I could not get to every one of them. The concept we put out there was to collect the stories and grievances and come up with a strategy to influence change in the name of fairness - not to take on any individual innkeeper's case. I'm sorry if I was difficult to reach and if I asked one of our volunteer leaders (I think our board vice chair) to reach out to you personally. I don't often do that, but felt you deserved to still speak with a leader of our organization, if not me. This is certainly the first time anyone has called me unprofessional.
I would like to know if you're still going to pursue legal action, since it has probably been months since you first brought your issue to PAII, and you indicate above that you were holding off on legal action until you got a response from PAII. What is your basis for a suit against TripAdvisor? What law are they breaking to your knowledge? We have no plans to sue them, because we have a decent understanding of the law that protects them. Many innkeepers say they want a class action suit - but no one seems to be able to share what the basis for such a suit might be. You seem to have done as much research or thinking about the issue as any innkeeper I've encountered. I'm always open to ideas and suggestions on different ways to approach situations. Any ideas? I asked above - exactly what resolution are you expecting to happen?
It seems we need to manage your high expectations about advocacy work. Lobbying efforts RARELY achieve desired results in a matter of months or even a year or two. And, as I mentioned before, this really isn't the same as lobbying government. TripAdvisor doesn't have to listen to me at all, but to their credit so far, they have. Small changes have been made. I still have my eyes on bigger changes. If one of your guests thought your inn was a terribly-run business and lobbied you to run it differently on behalf of all your guests, how often would you meet with that guest, how quickly would you implement changes they thought you should make? I encourage you to look at matters from all angles - not just yours.
It seems you have been burned and you want to fight fire with fire. And that's understandable, but my flame-thrower remains in the closet until a more appropriate reason surfaces.
This will be the last of my responses to SweetiePie on this matter on this forum. I have other work to attend to.
.

No one from PAII reached out to me I'm sad to say and I'm afraid this "blame the victim" attitude I've received from the responses to these posts has been quite unattractive as well. They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
If I treated my guests as a nuisance simply because they tried to communicate with me as PAII has done to me; I wouldn't have lasted as long as have in this business. I don't know where this arrogance comes from since the membership numbers certainly don't support it.
As far as communication goes, the fact that you have yet to respond to my question about dues; which I asked twice on this forum and specifically directed to you, speaks for itself. I guess T shirts are an acceptable topic, whereas dues are not.
Although you seem to have convinced your membership that they just have to live with Trip Advisor's actions as nothing can be done about them - that is simply not true. Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true. If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
.

If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
Presssure them with what? PAII is not in a position to pressureTA because they have no leverage. They can't threaten to take their members and leave TA because TA is not something you join. All Jay can do effectively is keep bending their ear so that they consider our side of things from time to time. He can't go in strong-arming them because he has no leverage legally or financially so they will just ignore him and refuse to meet with him. This would benefit no-one. Not even you.
They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
I don't think anyone is trying to demonize you, that is just a possible side effect of hearing you make the claims over and over again, but never really giving enough details to see the potential case as clearly as you do.
Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true.
Sort of. It is completely actionable legally as long as you can prove what is being said is not true.
If you want to present the details here (in a new thread please) there may be enough people here to give you another point of view that will either strengthen your case and yoru resolve, or help you see you are tilting at windmills.
.

tilting at windmills.

I love that! Not related to the topic but its like I must have heard that as a kid.
.

tilting at windmills.

I love that! Not related to the topic but its like I must have heard that as a kid.

LOL Yah my uncle Don used that one a lot.
.

LOL Yah my uncle Don used that one a lot.

the uncle from La Mancha?
.

I had to look that up! So Swirts Uncle is Don Quixote?! Who knew?
.

He had a fabulous musical...

 

[Breakfast Diva]

Back off BD!
I have as much right to express my opinion and experience as you do, without it being called a rant. It is not as simple as merely writing a management response, which I've done by the way. And yes, I do have many positive reviews and a decent score, in spite of that. So stop telling me to shut up and move on.
PAII made a big deal about ongoing meetings with Trip Advisor last year when I joined. I spent a lot of time submitting documentation about the incident, which by the way affects all of us. It had to do with Trip Advisor ignoring their own guidelines for submission of reviews and allowing something outrageous to be published. Not only that, they exploited it for their own gain. This is an area that PAII can and should be dealing with Trip Advisor about. If not them who? And I feel like I should be able to expect some type of resolution of the situation, which has yet to be forthcoming. Also, I was directed to speak with a board member about it and was disappointed at the response received.
You all have no problem holding other vendors accountable for their actions. Why is PAII exempt and treated like some "sacred cow" that no one can express an opinion about. I don't see you attacking Riki for her comments. You wouldn't have even gotten the information you did from Jay if it hadn't been for my comment..

EXACTLY what resolution are you expecting and how quickly? If it relates to wanting them to verify, check, validate, alter, or remove reviews, that is the longest shot of all the issues. You need to know that up front.
If their motto wasn't "Get the Truth, Then Go," there might be lower expectations for them to do anything about the reviews, because the motto implies they are the facilitator of truth. We know false reviews get on the site, which exacerbates matters. But the bottom line is (with regard to reviews) they don't have to do ANYTHING about them. But if we keep bringing up matters of right-and-wrong, we hope they'll take a balanced approach, instead of just a traveler-centric approach. A balanced approach, after all, would be better for their travelers in the long run.
We get held accountable just like vendors. I hear opinions good and bad about PAII every day of the year. It's just preferable when people couple their negative opinions with constructive thoughts, ideas, or suggestions.
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The definition of advocacy I found is as follows "the act of arguing in favour of, or supporting something; the practice of supporting someone to make their voice heard," Since I took the time to document the incident and submit it at your request, I think some feedback should have been in order.
I called your office repeatedly in the beginning, as I was holding off on taking any legal action. I never was allowed to talk to you and got nothing but excuses from your staff. Then after being referred to a board member was told that they were satisfied with the situation as it is.
I also posted a question on your blog which was never answered, nor was my question on this forum. Since part of my dues goes to paying your salary, I think I have as much right to have my questions answered as anyone else.
Apparently others are happy with your level of advocacy because they don't have a serious issue. However, I do and this behavior on your part has hardly been professional. A simple letter stating that the issue was brought up and there was nothing that could be done would have been preferable to being constantly ignored.
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When we announced that we were going to approach TripAdvisor about grievances in our industry last year, there was a monumentous onslaught of emails and communications from innkeepers all over the country. We invited the comments, and the response was overwhelming. Some sent us reports and summaries that were more than 20 pages long. Since this forum allows for anonymity, if you want to offline email me to remind me which B&B you are with, I might remember what you came to us about. If you are in NM, then I know who you are and my records show that I did communicate with you. I might not have closed the loop to your liking, because there is no way I could spend as much time on individual cases and grievances as some hoped, but we definitely were in touch one-on-one. I did my best to respond to as many of the hundreds of emails and phone calls as I could, but alas, I could not get to every one of them. The concept we put out there was to collect the stories and grievances and come up with a strategy to influence change in the name of fairness - not to take on any individual innkeeper's case. I'm sorry if I was difficult to reach and if I asked one of our volunteer leaders (I think our board vice chair) to reach out to you personally. I don't often do that, but felt you deserved to still speak with a leader of our organization, if not me. This is certainly the first time anyone has called me unprofessional.
I would like to know if you're still going to pursue legal action, since it has probably been months since you first brought your issue to PAII, and you indicate above that you were holding off on legal action until you got a response from PAII. What is your basis for a suit against TripAdvisor? What law are they breaking to your knowledge? We have no plans to sue them, because we have a decent understanding of the law that protects them. Many innkeepers say they want a class action suit - but no one seems to be able to share what the basis for such a suit might be. You seem to have done as much research or thinking about the issue as any innkeeper I've encountered. I'm always open to ideas and suggestions on different ways to approach situations. Any ideas? I asked above - exactly what resolution are you expecting to happen?
It seems we need to manage your high expectations about advocacy work. Lobbying efforts RARELY achieve desired results in a matter of months or even a year or two. And, as I mentioned before, this really isn't the same as lobbying government. TripAdvisor doesn't have to listen to me at all, but to their credit so far, they have. Small changes have been made. I still have my eyes on bigger changes. If one of your guests thought your inn was a terribly-run business and lobbied you to run it differently on behalf of all your guests, how often would you meet with that guest, how quickly would you implement changes they thought you should make? I encourage you to look at matters from all angles - not just yours.
It seems you have been burned and you want to fight fire with fire. And that's understandable, but my flame-thrower remains in the closet until a more appropriate reason surfaces.
This will be the last of my responses to SweetiePie on this matter on this forum. I have other work to attend to.
.

No one from PAII reached out to me I'm sad to say and I'm afraid this "blame the victim" attitude I've received from the responses to these posts has been quite unattractive as well. They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
If I treated my guests as a nuisance simply because they tried to communicate with me as PAII has done to me; I wouldn't have lasted as long as have in this business. I don't know where this arrogance comes from since the membership numbers certainly don't support it.
As far as communication goes, the fact that you have yet to respond to my question about dues; which I asked twice on this forum and specifically directed to you, speaks for itself. I guess T shirts are an acceptable topic, whereas dues are not.
Although you seem to have convinced your membership that they just have to live with Trip Advisor's actions as nothing can be done about them - that is simply not true. Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true. If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
.

If you could simply put pressure on Trip Advisor to follow their own stated guidelines, you would solve 99% of innkeepers' problems with them.
Presssure them with what? PAII is not in a position to pressureTA because they have no leverage. They can't threaten to take their members and leave TA because TA is not something you join. All Jay can do effectively is keep bending their ear so that they consider our side of things from time to time. He can't go in strong-arming them because he has no leverage legally or financially so they will just ignore him and refuse to meet with him. This would benefit no-one. Not even you.
They seem designed to demonize and label me as some sort of obsessed crackpot who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
I don't think anyone is trying to demonize you, that is just a possible side effect of hearing you make the claims over and over again, but never really giving enough details to see the potential case as clearly as you do.
Defamation is completely actionable legally, as long as what is being said is not true.
Sort of. It is completely actionable legally as long as you can prove what is being said is not true.
If you want to present the details here (in a new thread please) there may be enough people here to give you another point of view that will either strengthen your case and yoru resolve, or help you see you are tilting at windmills.
.

tilting at windmills.

I love that! Not related to the topic but its like I must have heard that as a kid.
.

tilting at windmills.

I love that! Not related to the topic but its like I must have heard that as a kid.

LOL Yah my uncle Don used that one a lot.
.

LOL Yah my uncle Don used that one a lot.

the uncle from La Mancha?
.

I had to look that up! So Swirts Uncle is Don Quixote?! Who knew?
.

He had a fabulous musical...
.

To dream the impossible dream...