Webervations booking problems - just me????

[JBanczak]

OK, on my credit card system, if I don't have the CVV, I can't enforce the reservation. I might as well not have the cc number, either. Do ya'll call the customer, email the customer, to get the CVV number, or not worry about it? I've had to enforce the early cancellation fee a few times. Thanks!.

OK, on my credit card system, if I don't have the CVV, I can't enforce the reservation. I might as well not have the cc number, either. Do ya'll call the customer, email the customer, to get the CVV number, or not worry about it? I've had to enforce the early cancellation fee a few times. Thanks!

My system has never requested the CVV, only validating the address and zip. If my system did require the CVV, I would read the articles John has placed in his post (so I would be educated on the subject) then contact my processor to discuss this matter.
I am sure your processor is not the only one currently asking for this data, as since this topic 1st was addressed on this forum (another thead), I have made 4-5 purchases where several requested the CVV. Given I do not usually make that many online purchases in such a short time, It seems to me that likely there are more systems that DO require the CVV than do not. (that of course does not make them right or in compliance - just address that there is a long way to go for compliance to be the norm).
.

OK, on my credit card system, if I don't have the CVV, I can't enforce the reservation. I might as well not have the cc number, either. Do ya'll call the customer, email the customer, to get the CVV number, or not worry about it? I've had to enforce the early cancellation fee a few times. Thanks!

My system has never requested the CVV, only validating the address and zip. If my system did require the CVV, I would read the articles John has placed in his post (so I would be educated on the subject) then contact my processor to discuss this matter.
I am sure your processor is not the only one currently asking for this data, as since this topic 1st was addressed on this forum (another thead), I have made 4-5 purchases where several requested the CVV. Given I do not usually make that many online purchases in such a short time, It seems to me that likely there are more systems that DO require the CVV than do not. (that of course does not make them right or in compliance - just address that there is a long way to go for compliance to be the norm).

CVV can be asked for in an online checkout - but the key here - is that when it is asked for, it is instantly transmitted to your processor in an encrypted message and never stored. We do this with RezOvation GT which has real-time credit card processing setup through Quickbooks.
But you can't have a system that grabs it, stores it, lets you see it - that is against the rules. I know it is confusing, but as you can imagine - items that are stored can be stolen... items that are not stored cannot...

 

[Copperhead]

John Wrote: So if you visit BBonline last, then even a week later go make a reservation from the same computer, the referral would show up as BBonlin
Thank you for clearing this up, I do get this with BBONLINE in the subject line as well. If they found us there, then that is fine. I thought it was a temp glitch and didn't interfere with the booking, so I never mentioned it..

John Wrote: So if you visit BBonline last, then even a week later go make a reservation from the same computer, the referral would show up as BBonlin
Thank you for clearing this up, I do get this with BBONLINE in the subject line as well. If they found us there, then that is fine. I thought it was a temp glitch and didn't interfere with the booking, so I never mentioned it.

The way I understand it from what John said is that the system picks up the last directory (that Webervations has coded) the IP address had visited, that does NOT mean that it was the way the guest found you - Case in point - my test reservations...the last directory I had visited prior to making my 1 test reservation was bandb.com because I was checking my traffic stats...when I made my test reservation THROUGH my own website, the system checked my search history and found bandb so used it as 'where I found' the b&b I booked - which is not the case.
Guillim stated she just received a webervations reservation where nothing else was in the subject line and stated in the body that it was through her website...chances are, the person that found your website had not visited any of the directories coded in the system or at least they were not in their history when the reservation was made. Thus the true location of tracking history was recorded.
One thing that I think would be confussing for the innkeeper is IF they were not a member of the directory that was listed on the reservation email...the way John explained it, I think that could (does) happen.

 

[JBanczak]

It sounds like the issue here in the original post has been identified. The test booking being made was using a bogus credit card - and since we do some validatation on the credit card number - the booking was getting kicked-back.
There was a GREAT suggestion to highlight this better - the way Webervations is doing it isn't as clear/obvious as it could be. We put it in as a high priority to improve this hopefully to avoid confusion.
I've heard AO is coming out with some changes. We'll certainly update this when that is the case - I think competition is great for the industry. We've learned a lot about some useful features from competitors of ours, and I'm sure they learn the same from us. Incidentally - I was curious if Availability Online validates the credit card info - so I tested a property. They do not - so any random number will work. Could be something that is being pdated/changed, but another difference to add to the list.
While testing that - for all of you concerned with credit card security - the CVV code on AO is redisplayed as actual text right online on the confirmation screen - again a huge no-no for PCI rules that ultimately properties will be held liable for. I don't mean to go on a witch hunt - but this is something that innkeepers should really be aware of. I certainly would not want to take on that type of liability. This is directly from the PCI website and affects the merchant of record in any data breach (the property):
>Q: What are the penalties for noncompliance?
>A: The payment brands may, at their discretion, fine an acquiring bank $5,000 to $100,000 per month for PCI compliance violations. The banks will most likely pass this fine on downstream till it eventually hits the merchant. Furthermore, the bank will also most likely either terminate your relationship or increase transaction fees. Penalties are not openly discussed nor widely publicized, but they can catastrophic to a small business.
It is important to be familiar with your merchant account agreement, which should outline your exposure.

http://www.practicalecommerce.com/articles/717-Merchants-Liable-For-Data-Breaches

Here is a great article on the impact this can have for small businesses. Mind you - most of these business were using a 3rd party system that they didn't realize was storing sensitive information - yet the small business gets the fine, not the 3rd party...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119042666704635941.html?mod=sphere_ts.

It sounds like the issue here in the original post has been identified. The test booking being made was using a bogus credit card - and since we do some validatation on the credit card number - the booking was getting kicked-back.
There was a GREAT suggestion to highlight this better - the way Webervations is doing it isn't as clear/obvious as it could be. We put it in as a high priority to improve this hopefully to avoid confusion.

John, thanks for responding...I have been tied up all afternoon to deal with this. Yes, after the call from Adam this afternoon we came to the decision that maybe the guest had incorrectly typed in his credit card # and did not receive a FLAG stating to double check the card number. When I made the test requests I used just a string of 16 numbers...it did not provide me with a FLAG either...so I thought the problem was more complex than it was. (or than we think) Adam did make several test reservations and they came through.
I had requested to Adam that a FLAG should be placed for inaccurate card numbers and he said he would place it on the list...I am glad that it will be placed on high priority - THANKS!!!!
Now I do have another matter.... after receiving a good test visa # from Adam, I have done several test reservations and have a BIG bone to pick with bandb. This was touched on by Mooseberry's post... but the matter is much bigger than that...
When I made my test reservations I went DIRECTLY to MY website and clicked on my 'book online' link to webervations.....The guest copy of the reservation went to my personal account - the subject line said : Webervations Request!! from the bedandbreakfast.com Web Site and my B&B email has this: How did you find us: Bedandbreakfast.com Web site -----NO I never went to bedandbreakfast.com to make this test reservation - It was from my OWN site. This give us false information for tracking - and gives the customer a false statement of where they found us. What about the B&B's that use webervations but are NOT listed on banb.com ....

This needs to be corrected ASAP...
.

It sounds like the issue here in the original post has been identified. The test booking being made was using a bogus credit card - and since we do some validatation on the credit card number - the booking was getting kicked-back.
There was a GREAT suggestion to highlight this better - the way Webervations is doing it isn't as clear/obvious as it could be. We put it in as a high priority to improve this hopefully to avoid confusion.

John, thanks for responding...I have been tied up all afternoon to deal with this. Yes, after the call from Adam this afternoon we came to the decision that maybe the guest had incorrectly typed in his credit card # and did not receive a FLAG stating to double check the card number. When I made the test requests I used just a string of 16 numbers...it did not provide me with a FLAG either...so I thought the problem was more complex than it was. (or than we think) Adam did make several test reservations and they came through.
I had requested to Adam that a FLAG should be placed for inaccurate card numbers and he said he would place it on the list...I am glad that it will be placed on high priority - THANKS!!!!
Now I do have another matter.... after receiving a good test visa # from Adam, I have done several test reservations and have a BIG bone to pick with bandb. This was touched on by Mooseberry's post... but the matter is much bigger than that...
When I made my test reservations I went DIRECTLY to MY website and clicked on my 'book online' link to webervations.....The guest copy of the reservation went to my personal account - the subject line said : Webervations Request!! from the bedandbreakfast.com Web Site and my B&B email has this: How did you find us: Bedandbreakfast.com Web site -----NO I never went to bedandbreakfast.com to make this test reservation - It was from my OWN site. This give us false information for tracking - and gives the customer a false statement of where they found us. What about the B&B's that use webervations but are NOT listed on banb.com ....

This needs to be corrected ASAP...

Just got an email back on this. We believe the way David wrote the tracking in Webervations is based on caching the IP address. So - if you visited bb.com last of all the directories that David had written into the system - it would keep that as the last site you visited and show a referral from BB.com. Same goes with BBonline or any of the directories that is hard-coded. It sounds like this has always been the case.
So if you visit BBonline last, then even a week later go make a reservation from the same computer, the referral would show up as BBonline.
Clearly this isn't a great way to do it, but quite frankly, it is unusual for any system to track this type of thing itself. Entire businesses have been built on good web tracking (i.e. Urchin and Google Analytics) with huge teams of programmers trying to get it correct... we will try to figure out how to make it more accurate, but this was something that we inherited with the system, and another thing on a long, long list of items we are trying to improve.
.

Now I do have another matter.... after receiving a good test visa # from Adam, I have done several test reservations and have a BIG bone to pick with bandb. This was touched on by Mooseberry's post... but the matter is much bigger than that...
When I made my test reservations I went DIRECTLY to MY website and clicked on my 'book online' link to webervations.....The guest copy of the reservation went to my personal account - the subject line said : Webervations Request!! from the bedandbreakfast.com Web Site and my B&B email has this: How did you find us: Bedandbreakfast.com Web site -----NO I never went to bedandbreakfast.com to make this test reservation - It was from my OWN site. This give us false information for tracking - and gives the customer a false statement of where they found us. What about the B&B's that use webervations but are NOT listed on banb.com ....

This needs to be corrected ASAP...

Just got an email back on this. We believe the way David wrote the tracking in Webervations is based on caching the IP address. So - if you visited bb.com last of all the directories that David had written into the system - it would keep that as the last site you visited and show a referral from BB.com. Same goes with BBonline or any of the directories that is hard-coded. It sounds like this has always been the case.
So if you visit BBonline last, then even a week later go make a reservation from the same computer, the referral would show up as BBonline.
Clearly this isn't a great way to do it, but quite frankly, it is unusual for any system to track this type of thing itself. Entire businesses have been built on good web tracking (i.e. Urchin and Google Analytics) with huge teams of programmers trying to get it correct... we will try to figure out how to make it more accurate, but this was something that we inherited with the system, and another thing on a long, long list of items we are trying to improve.

I do appreciate the promptness and the professional way in which my probem and the conserns I have with the system are being addressed. (Please pass this on to Adam as well). I do understand that there is a learning curve in taking over someone elses system and that you are addressing and correcting many security issues that in effect are for the best ofr all of us - you as owners of the system, the innkeepers as your customers and our guests whos data you are protecting by taking these measures. We can not expect this all to be handled overnight or with out glitches.
Now I am Just curious - What was the tracking if the IP address had NOT visited a directory? I never recall any of my tests (before bandb took over) ever sending an email that included anything regarding the directory in the subject line only the words - 'Webervation Request'. This must have been an addition made since the purchase - most likely recently as I have not noticed this before.
John, prior to sending this off I did another test reservation, but prior to that I went to bbonline and looked around a bit. The reservation email to my personal address (as the guest) has the same - as I stated before in the subject: Webervations Request! from the bedandbreakfast.com web site. and in the body of the email it says How did you find us: bedandbreakfast.com web site. (with active link) So, if it was tracking by my IP address with the last directory that my IP visited, it should have said bbonline! NOW, my Business email receipt of the request has all the guest email data (Including the how you found us and the link to bandb.com) but under the innkeeper portion, it states the customer found us though our own website!
John, just to be honest here, I would prefer not having any tracking than to provide the guest and/or the innkeeper false information. If that can not be corrected quickly, it would be best (IMO) to remove any tracking until it can be corrected.
.

[/quote]
I do appreciate the promptness and the professional way in which my probem and the conserns I have with the system are being addressed. (Please pass this on to Adam as well). I do understand that there is a learning curve in taking over someone elses system and that you are addressing and correcting many security issues that in effect are for the best ofr all of us - you as owners of the system, the innkeepers as your customers and our guests whos data you are protecting by taking these measures. We can not expect this all to be handled overnight or with out glitches.
Now I am Just curious - What was the tracking if the IP address had NOT visited a directory? I never recall any of my tests (before bandb took over) ever sending an email that included anything regarding the directory in the subject line only the words - 'Webervation Request'. This must have been an addition made since the purchase - most likely recently as I have not noticed this before.
John, prior to sending this off I did another test reservation, but prior to that I went to bbonline and looked around a bit. The reservation email to my personal address (as the guest) has the same - as I stated before in the subject: Webervations Request! from the bedandbreakfast.com web site. and in the body of the email it says How did you find us: bedandbreakfast.com web site. (with active link) So, if it was tracking by my IP address with the last directory that my IP visited, it should have said bbonline! NOW, my Business email receipt of the request has all the guest email data (Including the how you found us and the link to bandb.com) but under the innkeeper portion, it states the customer found us though our own website!
John, just to be honest here, I would prefer not having any tracking than to provide the guest and/or the innkeeper false information. If that can not be corrected quickly, it would be best (IMO) to remove any tracking until it can be corrected.
[/quote]
Thanks for those comments - I will pass onto Adam.
Did you click on a weber link on BBonline? Or do a date search and click on a link? I can assure you - this is nothing we implemented or changed in the system. I believe you need to take an action on the site related to Webervations, and apologize if that wasn't clear.
Quite frankly, if it were me, I'd use Google Analytics rather than any built-in tracking. We enable you to enter you GA id right into the system and get all the tracking that provides. Of course your website needs to be setup with it as well.

 

[JBanczak]

John Wrote: So if you visit BBonline last, then even a week later go make a reservation from the same computer, the referral would show up as BBonlin
Thank you for clearing this up, I do get this with BBONLINE in the subject line as well. If they found us there, then that is fine. I thought it was a temp glitch and didn't interfere with the booking, so I never mentioned it..

John Wrote: So if you visit BBonline last, then even a week later go make a reservation from the same computer, the referral would show up as BBonlin
Thank you for clearing this up, I do get this with BBONLINE in the subject line as well. If they found us there, then that is fine. I thought it was a temp glitch and didn't interfere with the booking, so I never mentioned it.

The way I understand it from what John said is that the system picks up the last directory (that Webervations has coded) the IP address had visited, that does NOT mean that it was the way the guest found you - Case in point - my test reservations...the last directory I had visited prior to making my 1 test reservation was bandb.com because I was checking my traffic stats...when I made my test reservation THROUGH my own website, the system checked my search history and found bandb so used it as 'where I found' the b&b I booked - which is not the case.
Guillim stated she just received a webervations reservation where nothing else was in the subject line and stated in the body that it was through her website...chances are, the person that found your website had not visited any of the directories coded in the system or at least they were not in their history when the reservation was made. Thus the true location of tracking history was recorded.
One thing that I think would be confussing for the innkeeper is IF they were not a member of the directory that was listed on the reservation email...the way John explained it, I think that could (does) happen.
.

John Wrote: So if you visit BBonline last, then even a week later go make a reservation from the same computer, the referral would show up as BBonlin
Thank you for clearing this up, I do get this with BBONLINE in the subject line as well. If they found us there, then that is fine. I thought it was a temp glitch and didn't interfere with the booking, so I never mentioned it.

The way I understand it from what John said is that the system picks up the last directory (that Webervations has coded) the IP address had visited, that does NOT mean that it was the way the guest found you - Case in point - my test reservations...the last directory I had visited prior to making my 1 test reservation was bandb.com because I was checking my traffic stats...when I made my test reservation THROUGH my own website, the system checked my search history and found bandb so used it as 'where I found' the b&b I booked - which is not the case.
Guillim stated she just received a webervations reservation where nothing else was in the subject line and stated in the body that it was through her website...chances are, the person that found your website had not visited any of the directories coded in the system or at least they were not in their history when the reservation was made. Thus the true location of tracking history was recorded.
One thing that I think would be confussing for the innkeeper is IF they were not a member of the directory that was listed on the reservation email...the way John explained it, I think that could (does) happen.

That's what I was trying to say! Well said - that explains it much better. I'm looking into whether that could happen, but they way I believe it works is that you would have to at some point click on a Weber link from that directory. It wouldn't have to be right when you made the rez, but at some point.

 

[Suzie Q]

OK, on my credit card system, if I don't have the CVV, I can't enforce the reservation. I might as well not have the cc number, either. Do ya'll call the customer, email the customer, to get the CVV number, or not worry about it? I've had to enforce the early cancellation fee a few times. Thanks!.

OK, on my credit card system, if I don't have the CVV, I can't enforce the reservation. I might as well not have the cc number, either. Do ya'll call the customer, email the customer, to get the CVV number, or not worry about it? I've had to enforce the early cancellation fee a few times. Thanks!

My system has never requested the CVV, only validating the address and zip. If my system did require the CVV, I would read the articles John has placed in his post (so I would be educated on the subject) then contact my processor to discuss this matter.
I am sure your processor is not the only one currently asking for this data, as since this topic 1st was addressed on this forum (another thead), I have made 4-5 purchases where several requested the CVV. Given I do not usually make that many online purchases in such a short time, It seems to me that likely there are more systems that DO require the CVV than do not. (that of course does not make them right or in compliance - just address that there is a long way to go for compliance to be the norm).
.

OK, on my credit card system, if I don't have the CVV, I can't enforce the reservation. I might as well not have the cc number, either. Do ya'll call the customer, email the customer, to get the CVV number, or not worry about it? I've had to enforce the early cancellation fee a few times. Thanks!

My system has never requested the CVV, only validating the address and zip. If my system did require the CVV, I would read the articles John has placed in his post (so I would be educated on the subject) then contact my processor to discuss this matter.
I am sure your processor is not the only one currently asking for this data, as since this topic 1st was addressed on this forum (another thead), I have made 4-5 purchases where several requested the CVV. Given I do not usually make that many online purchases in such a short time, It seems to me that likely there are more systems that DO require the CVV than do not. (that of course does not make them right or in compliance - just address that there is a long way to go for compliance to be the norm).

CVV can be asked for in an online checkout - but the key here - is that when it is asked for, it is instantly transmitted to your processor in an encrypted message and never stored. We do this with RezOvation GT which has real-time credit card processing setup through Quickbooks.
But you can't have a system that grabs it, stores it, lets you see it - that is against the rules. I know it is confusing, but as you can imagine - items that are stored can be stolen... items that are not stored cannot...
.

I just called my cc processor. They offered to take off the CVV part of the transmission and I thanked them profusely. They also offered to take off the address requirement, but I declined that.
C

 

[Copperhead]

OK, on my credit card system, if I don't have the CVV, I can't enforce the reservation. I might as well not have the cc number, either. Do ya'll call the customer, email the customer, to get the CVV number, or not worry about it? I've had to enforce the early cancellation fee a few times. Thanks!.

OK, on my credit card system, if I don't have the CVV, I can't enforce the reservation. I might as well not have the cc number, either. Do ya'll call the customer, email the customer, to get the CVV number, or not worry about it? I've had to enforce the early cancellation fee a few times. Thanks!

My system has never requested the CVV, only validating the address and zip. If my system did require the CVV, I would read the articles John has placed in his post (so I would be educated on the subject) then contact my processor to discuss this matter.
I am sure your processor is not the only one currently asking for this data, as since this topic 1st was addressed on this forum (another thead), I have made 4-5 purchases where several requested the CVV. Given I do not usually make that many online purchases in such a short time, It seems to me that likely there are more systems that DO require the CVV than do not. (that of course does not make them right or in compliance - just address that there is a long way to go for compliance to be the norm).
.

OK, on my credit card system, if I don't have the CVV, I can't enforce the reservation. I might as well not have the cc number, either. Do ya'll call the customer, email the customer, to get the CVV number, or not worry about it? I've had to enforce the early cancellation fee a few times. Thanks!

My system has never requested the CVV, only validating the address and zip. If my system did require the CVV, I would read the articles John has placed in his post (so I would be educated on the subject) then contact my processor to discuss this matter.
I am sure your processor is not the only one currently asking for this data, as since this topic 1st was addressed on this forum (another thead), I have made 4-5 purchases where several requested the CVV. Given I do not usually make that many online purchases in such a short time, It seems to me that likely there are more systems that DO require the CVV than do not. (that of course does not make them right or in compliance - just address that there is a long way to go for compliance to be the norm).

CVV can be asked for in an online checkout - but the key here - is that when it is asked for, it is instantly transmitted to your processor in an encrypted message and never stored. We do this with RezOvation GT which has real-time credit card processing setup through Quickbooks.
But you can't have a system that grabs it, stores it, lets you see it - that is against the rules. I know it is confusing, but as you can imagine - items that are stored can be stolen... items that are not stored cannot...
.

I just called my cc processor. They offered to take off the CVV part of the transmission and I thanked them profusely. They also offered to take off the address requirement, but I declined that.
C
.

I just called my cc processor. They offered to take off the CVV part of the transmission and I thanked them profusely. They also offered to take off the address requirement, but I declined that.
C

So are your rates different? I think that was a consern for some.

 

[Copperhead]

It sounds like the issue here in the original post has been identified. The test booking being made was using a bogus credit card - and since we do some validatation on the credit card number - the booking was getting kicked-back.
There was a GREAT suggestion to highlight this better - the way Webervations is doing it isn't as clear/obvious as it could be. We put it in as a high priority to improve this hopefully to avoid confusion.
I've heard AO is coming out with some changes. We'll certainly update this when that is the case - I think competition is great for the industry. We've learned a lot about some useful features from competitors of ours, and I'm sure they learn the same from us. Incidentally - I was curious if Availability Online validates the credit card info - so I tested a property. They do not - so any random number will work. Could be something that is being pdated/changed, but another difference to add to the list.
While testing that - for all of you concerned with credit card security - the CVV code on AO is redisplayed as actual text right online on the confirmation screen - again a huge no-no for PCI rules that ultimately properties will be held liable for. I don't mean to go on a witch hunt - but this is something that innkeepers should really be aware of. I certainly would not want to take on that type of liability. This is directly from the PCI website and affects the merchant of record in any data breach (the property):
>Q: What are the penalties for noncompliance?
>A: The payment brands may, at their discretion, fine an acquiring bank $5,000 to $100,000 per month for PCI compliance violations. The banks will most likely pass this fine on downstream till it eventually hits the merchant. Furthermore, the bank will also most likely either terminate your relationship or increase transaction fees. Penalties are not openly discussed nor widely publicized, but they can catastrophic to a small business.
It is important to be familiar with your merchant account agreement, which should outline your exposure.

http://www.practicalecommerce.com/articles/717-Merchants-Liable-For-Data-Breaches

Here is a great article on the impact this can have for small businesses. Mind you - most of these business were using a 3rd party system that they didn't realize was storing sensitive information - yet the small business gets the fine, not the 3rd party...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119042666704635941.html?mod=sphere_ts.

It sounds like the issue here in the original post has been identified. The test booking being made was using a bogus credit card - and since we do some validatation on the credit card number - the booking was getting kicked-back.
There was a GREAT suggestion to highlight this better - the way Webervations is doing it isn't as clear/obvious as it could be. We put it in as a high priority to improve this hopefully to avoid confusion.

John, thanks for responding...I have been tied up all afternoon to deal with this. Yes, after the call from Adam this afternoon we came to the decision that maybe the guest had incorrectly typed in his credit card # and did not receive a FLAG stating to double check the card number. When I made the test requests I used just a string of 16 numbers...it did not provide me with a FLAG either...so I thought the problem was more complex than it was. (or than we think) Adam did make several test reservations and they came through.
I had requested to Adam that a FLAG should be placed for inaccurate card numbers and he said he would place it on the list...I am glad that it will be placed on high priority - THANKS!!!!
Now I do have another matter.... after receiving a good test visa # from Adam, I have done several test reservations and have a BIG bone to pick with bandb. This was touched on by Mooseberry's post... but the matter is much bigger than that...
When I made my test reservations I went DIRECTLY to MY website and clicked on my 'book online' link to webervations.....The guest copy of the reservation went to my personal account - the subject line said : Webervations Request!! from the bedandbreakfast.com Web Site and my B&B email has this: How did you find us: Bedandbreakfast.com Web site -----NO I never went to bedandbreakfast.com to make this test reservation - It was from my OWN site. This give us false information for tracking - and gives the customer a false statement of where they found us. What about the B&B's that use webervations but are NOT listed on banb.com ....

This needs to be corrected ASAP...
.

It sounds like the issue here in the original post has been identified. The test booking being made was using a bogus credit card - and since we do some validatation on the credit card number - the booking was getting kicked-back.
There was a GREAT suggestion to highlight this better - the way Webervations is doing it isn't as clear/obvious as it could be. We put it in as a high priority to improve this hopefully to avoid confusion.

John, thanks for responding...I have been tied up all afternoon to deal with this. Yes, after the call from Adam this afternoon we came to the decision that maybe the guest had incorrectly typed in his credit card # and did not receive a FLAG stating to double check the card number. When I made the test requests I used just a string of 16 numbers...it did not provide me with a FLAG either...so I thought the problem was more complex than it was. (or than we think) Adam did make several test reservations and they came through.
I had requested to Adam that a FLAG should be placed for inaccurate card numbers and he said he would place it on the list...I am glad that it will be placed on high priority - THANKS!!!!
Now I do have another matter.... after receiving a good test visa # from Adam, I have done several test reservations and have a BIG bone to pick with bandb. This was touched on by Mooseberry's post... but the matter is much bigger than that...
When I made my test reservations I went DIRECTLY to MY website and clicked on my 'book online' link to webervations.....The guest copy of the reservation went to my personal account - the subject line said : Webervations Request!! from the bedandbreakfast.com Web Site and my B&B email has this: How did you find us: Bedandbreakfast.com Web site -----NO I never went to bedandbreakfast.com to make this test reservation - It was from my OWN site. This give us false information for tracking - and gives the customer a false statement of where they found us. What about the B&B's that use webervations but are NOT listed on banb.com ....

This needs to be corrected ASAP...

Just got an email back on this. We believe the way David wrote the tracking in Webervations is based on caching the IP address. So - if you visited bb.com last of all the directories that David had written into the system - it would keep that as the last site you visited and show a referral from BB.com. Same goes with BBonline or any of the directories that is hard-coded. It sounds like this has always been the case.
So if you visit BBonline last, then even a week later go make a reservation from the same computer, the referral would show up as BBonline.
Clearly this isn't a great way to do it, but quite frankly, it is unusual for any system to track this type of thing itself. Entire businesses have been built on good web tracking (i.e. Urchin and Google Analytics) with huge teams of programmers trying to get it correct... we will try to figure out how to make it more accurate, but this was something that we inherited with the system, and another thing on a long, long list of items we are trying to improve.
.

Now I do have another matter.... after receiving a good test visa # from Adam, I have done several test reservations and have a BIG bone to pick with bandb. This was touched on by Mooseberry's post... but the matter is much bigger than that...
When I made my test reservations I went DIRECTLY to MY website and clicked on my 'book online' link to webervations.....The guest copy of the reservation went to my personal account - the subject line said : Webervations Request!! from the bedandbreakfast.com Web Site and my B&B email has this: How did you find us: Bedandbreakfast.com Web site -----NO I never went to bedandbreakfast.com to make this test reservation - It was from my OWN site. This give us false information for tracking - and gives the customer a false statement of where they found us. What about the B&B's that use webervations but are NOT listed on banb.com ....

This needs to be corrected ASAP...

Just got an email back on this. We believe the way David wrote the tracking in Webervations is based on caching the IP address. So - if you visited bb.com last of all the directories that David had written into the system - it would keep that as the last site you visited and show a referral from BB.com. Same goes with BBonline or any of the directories that is hard-coded. It sounds like this has always been the case.
So if you visit BBonline last, then even a week later go make a reservation from the same computer, the referral would show up as BBonline.
Clearly this isn't a great way to do it, but quite frankly, it is unusual for any system to track this type of thing itself. Entire businesses have been built on good web tracking (i.e. Urchin and Google Analytics) with huge teams of programmers trying to get it correct... we will try to figure out how to make it more accurate, but this was something that we inherited with the system, and another thing on a long, long list of items we are trying to improve.

I do appreciate the promptness and the professional way in which my probem and the conserns I have with the system are being addressed. (Please pass this on to Adam as well). I do understand that there is a learning curve in taking over someone elses system and that you are addressing and correcting many security issues that in effect are for the best ofr all of us - you as owners of the system, the innkeepers as your customers and our guests whos data you are protecting by taking these measures. We can not expect this all to be handled overnight or with out glitches.
Now I am Just curious - What was the tracking if the IP address had NOT visited a directory? I never recall any of my tests (before bandb took over) ever sending an email that included anything regarding the directory in the subject line only the words - 'Webervation Request'. This must have been an addition made since the purchase - most likely recently as I have not noticed this before.
John, prior to sending this off I did another test reservation, but prior to that I went to bbonline and looked around a bit. The reservation email to my personal address (as the guest) has the same - as I stated before in the subject: Webervations Request! from the bedandbreakfast.com web site. and in the body of the email it says How did you find us: bedandbreakfast.com web site. (with active link) So, if it was tracking by my IP address with the last directory that my IP visited, it should have said bbonline! NOW, my Business email receipt of the request has all the guest email data (Including the how you found us and the link to bandb.com) but under the innkeeper portion, it states the customer found us though our own website!
John, just to be honest here, I would prefer not having any tracking than to provide the guest and/or the innkeeper false information. If that can not be corrected quickly, it would be best (IMO) to remove any tracking until it can be corrected.
.

I do appreciate the promptness and the professional way in which my probem and the conserns I have with the system are being addressed. (Please pass this on to Adam as well). I do understand that there is a learning curve in taking over someone elses system and that you are addressing and correcting many security issues that in effect are for the best ofr all of us - you as owners of the system, the innkeepers as your customers and our guests whos data you are protecting by taking these measures. We can not expect this all to be handled overnight or with out glitches.
Now I am Just curious - What was the tracking if the IP address had NOT visited a directory? I never recall any of my tests (before bandb took over) ever sending an email that included anything regarding the directory in the subject line only the words - 'Webervation Request'. This must have been an addition made since the purchase - most likely recently as I have not noticed this before.
John, prior to sending this off I did another test reservation, but prior to that I went to bbonline and looked around a bit. The reservation email to my personal address (as the guest) has the same - as I stated before in the subject: Webervations Request! from the bedandbreakfast.com web site. and in the body of the email it says How did you find us: bedandbreakfast.com web site. (with active link) So, if it was tracking by my IP address with the last directory that my IP visited, it should have said bbonline! NOW, my Business email receipt of the request has all the guest email data (Including the how you found us and the link to bandb.com) but under the innkeeper portion, it states the customer found us though our own website!
John, just to be honest here, I would prefer not having any tracking than to provide the guest and/or the innkeeper false information. If that can not be corrected quickly, it would be best (IMO) to remove any tracking until it can be corrected.
[/quote]
Thanks for those comments - I will pass onto Adam.
Did you click on a weber link on BBonline? Or do a date search and click on a link? I can assure you - this is nothing we implemented or changed in the system. I believe you need to take an action on the site related to Webervations, and apologize if that wasn't clear.
Quite frankly, if it were me, I'd use Google Analytics rather than any built-in tracking. We enable you to enter you GA id right into the system and get all the tracking that provides. Of course your website needs to be setup with it as well.
.

[/QUOTE]
John wrote: Did you click on a weber link on BBonline? Or do a date search and click on a link? I can assure you - this is nothing we implemented or changed in the system. I believe you need to take an action on the site related to Webervations, and apologize if that wasn't clear.
Quite frankly, if it were me, I'd use Google Analytics rather than any built-in tracking. We enable you to enter you GA id right into the system and get all the tracking that provides. Of course your website needs to be setup with it as well.
John I did not click on a webervations link from bbonline yesterday and I can't remember the last time I did that on either site. Maybe that is the reason it stayed as bandb... too busy today to test this theory but you are most likely correct.... I am not using webervations info as my tracking but I do not wish a system to provide (possible) inaccurate information either... I do hope that your team will address this at some point in the near future...I do understand that there are many more important issues to address first... Thanks again for corresponding on this issue. You are a valuable resource for bandb and this wonderful group of innkeepers on this forum.

 

[JBanczak]

It sounds like the issue here in the original post has been identified. The test booking being made was using a bogus credit card - and since we do some validatation on the credit card number - the booking was getting kicked-back.
There was a GREAT suggestion to highlight this better - the way Webervations is doing it isn't as clear/obvious as it could be. We put it in as a high priority to improve this hopefully to avoid confusion.
I've heard AO is coming out with some changes. We'll certainly update this when that is the case - I think competition is great for the industry. We've learned a lot about some useful features from competitors of ours, and I'm sure they learn the same from us. Incidentally - I was curious if Availability Online validates the credit card info - so I tested a property. They do not - so any random number will work. Could be something that is being pdated/changed, but another difference to add to the list.
While testing that - for all of you concerned with credit card security - the CVV code on AO is redisplayed as actual text right online on the confirmation screen - again a huge no-no for PCI rules that ultimately properties will be held liable for. I don't mean to go on a witch hunt - but this is something that innkeepers should really be aware of. I certainly would not want to take on that type of liability. This is directly from the PCI website and affects the merchant of record in any data breach (the property):
>Q: What are the penalties for noncompliance?
>A: The payment brands may, at their discretion, fine an acquiring bank $5,000 to $100,000 per month for PCI compliance violations. The banks will most likely pass this fine on downstream till it eventually hits the merchant. Furthermore, the bank will also most likely either terminate your relationship or increase transaction fees. Penalties are not openly discussed nor widely publicized, but they can catastrophic to a small business.
It is important to be familiar with your merchant account agreement, which should outline your exposure.

http://www.practicalecommerce.com/articles/717-Merchants-Liable-For-Data-Breaches

Here is a great article on the impact this can have for small businesses. Mind you - most of these business were using a 3rd party system that they didn't realize was storing sensitive information - yet the small business gets the fine, not the 3rd party...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119042666704635941.html?mod=sphere_ts.

It sounds like the issue here in the original post has been identified. The test booking being made was using a bogus credit card - and since we do some validatation on the credit card number - the booking was getting kicked-back.
There was a GREAT suggestion to highlight this better - the way Webervations is doing it isn't as clear/obvious as it could be. We put it in as a high priority to improve this hopefully to avoid confusion.

John, thanks for responding...I have been tied up all afternoon to deal with this. Yes, after the call from Adam this afternoon we came to the decision that maybe the guest had incorrectly typed in his credit card # and did not receive a FLAG stating to double check the card number. When I made the test requests I used just a string of 16 numbers...it did not provide me with a FLAG either...so I thought the problem was more complex than it was. (or than we think) Adam did make several test reservations and they came through.
I had requested to Adam that a FLAG should be placed for inaccurate card numbers and he said he would place it on the list...I am glad that it will be placed on high priority - THANKS!!!!
Now I do have another matter.... after receiving a good test visa # from Adam, I have done several test reservations and have a BIG bone to pick with bandb. This was touched on by Mooseberry's post... but the matter is much bigger than that...
When I made my test reservations I went DIRECTLY to MY website and clicked on my 'book online' link to webervations.....The guest copy of the reservation went to my personal account - the subject line said : Webervations Request!! from the bedandbreakfast.com Web Site and my B&B email has this: How did you find us: Bedandbreakfast.com Web site -----NO I never went to bedandbreakfast.com to make this test reservation - It was from my OWN site. This give us false information for tracking - and gives the customer a false statement of where they found us. What about the B&B's that use webervations but are NOT listed on banb.com ....

This needs to be corrected ASAP...
.

It sounds like the issue here in the original post has been identified. The test booking being made was using a bogus credit card - and since we do some validatation on the credit card number - the booking was getting kicked-back.
There was a GREAT suggestion to highlight this better - the way Webervations is doing it isn't as clear/obvious as it could be. We put it in as a high priority to improve this hopefully to avoid confusion.

John, thanks for responding...I have been tied up all afternoon to deal with this. Yes, after the call from Adam this afternoon we came to the decision that maybe the guest had incorrectly typed in his credit card # and did not receive a FLAG stating to double check the card number. When I made the test requests I used just a string of 16 numbers...it did not provide me with a FLAG either...so I thought the problem was more complex than it was. (or than we think) Adam did make several test reservations and they came through.
I had requested to Adam that a FLAG should be placed for inaccurate card numbers and he said he would place it on the list...I am glad that it will be placed on high priority - THANKS!!!!
Now I do have another matter.... after receiving a good test visa # from Adam, I have done several test reservations and have a BIG bone to pick with bandb. This was touched on by Mooseberry's post... but the matter is much bigger than that...
When I made my test reservations I went DIRECTLY to MY website and clicked on my 'book online' link to webervations.....The guest copy of the reservation went to my personal account - the subject line said : Webervations Request!! from the bedandbreakfast.com Web Site and my B&B email has this: How did you find us: Bedandbreakfast.com Web site -----NO I never went to bedandbreakfast.com to make this test reservation - It was from my OWN site. This give us false information for tracking - and gives the customer a false statement of where they found us. What about the B&B's that use webervations but are NOT listed on banb.com ....

This needs to be corrected ASAP...

Just got an email back on this. We believe the way David wrote the tracking in Webervations is based on caching the IP address. So - if you visited bb.com last of all the directories that David had written into the system - it would keep that as the last site you visited and show a referral from BB.com. Same goes with BBonline or any of the directories that is hard-coded. It sounds like this has always been the case.
So if you visit BBonline last, then even a week later go make a reservation from the same computer, the referral would show up as BBonline.
Clearly this isn't a great way to do it, but quite frankly, it is unusual for any system to track this type of thing itself. Entire businesses have been built on good web tracking (i.e. Urchin and Google Analytics) with huge teams of programmers trying to get it correct... we will try to figure out how to make it more accurate, but this was something that we inherited with the system, and another thing on a long, long list of items we are trying to improve.
.

Now I do have another matter.... after receiving a good test visa # from Adam, I have done several test reservations and have a BIG bone to pick with bandb. This was touched on by Mooseberry's post... but the matter is much bigger than that...
When I made my test reservations I went DIRECTLY to MY website and clicked on my 'book online' link to webervations.....The guest copy of the reservation went to my personal account - the subject line said : Webervations Request!! from the bedandbreakfast.com Web Site and my B&B email has this: How did you find us: Bedandbreakfast.com Web site -----NO I never went to bedandbreakfast.com to make this test reservation - It was from my OWN site. This give us false information for tracking - and gives the customer a false statement of where they found us. What about the B&B's that use webervations but are NOT listed on banb.com ....

This needs to be corrected ASAP...

Just got an email back on this. We believe the way David wrote the tracking in Webervations is based on caching the IP address. So - if you visited bb.com last of all the directories that David had written into the system - it would keep that as the last site you visited and show a referral from BB.com. Same goes with BBonline or any of the directories that is hard-coded. It sounds like this has always been the case.
So if you visit BBonline last, then even a week later go make a reservation from the same computer, the referral would show up as BBonline.
Clearly this isn't a great way to do it, but quite frankly, it is unusual for any system to track this type of thing itself. Entire businesses have been built on good web tracking (i.e. Urchin and Google Analytics) with huge teams of programmers trying to get it correct... we will try to figure out how to make it more accurate, but this was something that we inherited with the system, and another thing on a long, long list of items we are trying to improve.

I do appreciate the promptness and the professional way in which my probem and the conserns I have with the system are being addressed. (Please pass this on to Adam as well). I do understand that there is a learning curve in taking over someone elses system and that you are addressing and correcting many security issues that in effect are for the best ofr all of us - you as owners of the system, the innkeepers as your customers and our guests whos data you are protecting by taking these measures. We can not expect this all to be handled overnight or with out glitches.
Now I am Just curious - What was the tracking if the IP address had NOT visited a directory? I never recall any of my tests (before bandb took over) ever sending an email that included anything regarding the directory in the subject line only the words - 'Webervation Request'. This must have been an addition made since the purchase - most likely recently as I have not noticed this before.
John, prior to sending this off I did another test reservation, but prior to that I went to bbonline and looked around a bit. The reservation email to my personal address (as the guest) has the same - as I stated before in the subject: Webervations Request! from the bedandbreakfast.com web site. and in the body of the email it says How did you find us: bedandbreakfast.com web site. (with active link) So, if it was tracking by my IP address with the last directory that my IP visited, it should have said bbonline! NOW, my Business email receipt of the request has all the guest email data (Including the how you found us and the link to bandb.com) but under the innkeeper portion, it states the customer found us though our own website!
John, just to be honest here, I would prefer not having any tracking than to provide the guest and/or the innkeeper false information. If that can not be corrected quickly, it would be best (IMO) to remove any tracking until it can be corrected.
.

I do appreciate the promptness and the professional way in which my probem and the conserns I have with the system are being addressed. (Please pass this on to Adam as well). I do understand that there is a learning curve in taking over someone elses system and that you are addressing and correcting many security issues that in effect are for the best ofr all of us - you as owners of the system, the innkeepers as your customers and our guests whos data you are protecting by taking these measures. We can not expect this all to be handled overnight or with out glitches.
Now I am Just curious - What was the tracking if the IP address had NOT visited a directory? I never recall any of my tests (before bandb took over) ever sending an email that included anything regarding the directory in the subject line only the words - 'Webervation Request'. This must have been an addition made since the purchase - most likely recently as I have not noticed this before.
John, prior to sending this off I did another test reservation, but prior to that I went to bbonline and looked around a bit. The reservation email to my personal address (as the guest) has the same - as I stated before in the subject: Webervations Request! from the bedandbreakfast.com web site. and in the body of the email it says How did you find us: bedandbreakfast.com web site. (with active link) So, if it was tracking by my IP address with the last directory that my IP visited, it should have said bbonline! NOW, my Business email receipt of the request has all the guest email data (Including the how you found us and the link to bandb.com) but under the innkeeper portion, it states the customer found us though our own website!
John, just to be honest here, I would prefer not having any tracking than to provide the guest and/or the innkeeper false information. If that can not be corrected quickly, it would be best (IMO) to remove any tracking until it can be corrected.

Thanks for those comments - I will pass onto Adam.
Did you click on a weber link on BBonline? Or do a date search and click on a link? I can assure you - this is nothing we implemented or changed in the system. I believe you need to take an action on the site related to Webervations, and apologize if that wasn't clear.
Quite frankly, if it were me, I'd use Google Analytics rather than any built-in tracking. We enable you to enter you GA id right into the system and get all the tracking that provides. Of course your website needs to be setup with it as well.
.

[/QUOTE]
John wrote: Did you click on a weber link on BBonline? Or do a date search and click on a link? I can assure you - this is nothing we implemented or changed in the system. I believe you need to take an action on the site related to Webervations, and apologize if that wasn't clear.
Quite frankly, if it were me, I'd use Google Analytics rather than any built-in tracking. We enable you to enter you GA id right into the system and get all the tracking that provides. Of course your website needs to be setup with it as well.
John I did not click on a webervations link from bbonline yesterday and I can't remember the last time I did that on either site. Maybe that is the reason it stayed as bandb... too busy today to test this theory but you are most likely correct.... I am not using webervations info as my tracking but I do not wish a system to provide (possible) inaccurate information either... I do hope that your team will address this at some point in the near future...I do understand that there are many more important issues to address first... Thanks again for corresponding on this issue. You are a valuable resource for bandb and this wonderful group of innkeepers on this forum.
.

[/QUOTE]

John wrote: Did you click on a weber link on BBonline? Or do a date search and click on a link? I can assure you - this is nothing we implemented or changed in the system. I believe you need to take an action on the site related to Webervations, and apologize if that wasn't clear.
Quite frankly, if it were me, I'd use Google Analytics rather than any built-in tracking. We enable you to enter you GA id right into the system and get all the tracking that provides. Of course your website needs to be setup with it as well.
John I did not click on a webervations link from bbonline yesterday and I can't remember the last time I did that on either site. Maybe that is the reason it stayed as bandb... too busy today to test this theory but you are most likely correct.... I am not using webervations info as my tracking but I do not wish a system to provide (possible) inaccurate information either... I do hope that your team will address this at some point in the near future...I do understand that there are many more important issues to address first... Thanks again for corresponding on this issue. You are a valuable resource for bandb and this wonderful group of innkeepers on this forum.

Thanks - appreciate that. We are meeting at 930 this morning (me - product manager - one of the developers) to see if there is a way we can implement something that makes sense. For instance - deleting the IP tag after a day or two... that type of thing. I'll let you know what we find out!

 

[JBanczak]

OK, on my credit card system, if I don't have the CVV, I can't enforce the reservation. I might as well not have the cc number, either. Do ya'll call the customer, email the customer, to get the CVV number, or not worry about it? I've had to enforce the early cancellation fee a few times. Thanks!.

OK, on my credit card system, if I don't have the CVV, I can't enforce the reservation. I might as well not have the cc number, either. Do ya'll call the customer, email the customer, to get the CVV number, or not worry about it? I've had to enforce the early cancellation fee a few times. Thanks!

My system has never requested the CVV, only validating the address and zip. If my system did require the CVV, I would read the articles John has placed in his post (so I would be educated on the subject) then contact my processor to discuss this matter.
I am sure your processor is not the only one currently asking for this data, as since this topic 1st was addressed on this forum (another thead), I have made 4-5 purchases where several requested the CVV. Given I do not usually make that many online purchases in such a short time, It seems to me that likely there are more systems that DO require the CVV than do not. (that of course does not make them right or in compliance - just address that there is a long way to go for compliance to be the norm).
.

OK, on my credit card system, if I don't have the CVV, I can't enforce the reservation. I might as well not have the cc number, either. Do ya'll call the customer, email the customer, to get the CVV number, or not worry about it? I've had to enforce the early cancellation fee a few times. Thanks!

My system has never requested the CVV, only validating the address and zip. If my system did require the CVV, I would read the articles John has placed in his post (so I would be educated on the subject) then contact my processor to discuss this matter.
I am sure your processor is not the only one currently asking for this data, as since this topic 1st was addressed on this forum (another thead), I have made 4-5 purchases where several requested the CVV. Given I do not usually make that many online purchases in such a short time, It seems to me that likely there are more systems that DO require the CVV than do not. (that of course does not make them right or in compliance - just address that there is a long way to go for compliance to be the norm).

CVV can be asked for in an online checkout - but the key here - is that when it is asked for, it is instantly transmitted to your processor in an encrypted message and never stored. We do this with RezOvation GT which has real-time credit card processing setup through Quickbooks.
But you can't have a system that grabs it, stores it, lets you see it - that is against the rules. I know it is confusing, but as you can imagine - items that are stored can be stolen... items that are not stored cannot...
.

I just called my cc processor. They offered to take off the CVV part of the transmission and I thanked them profusely. They also offered to take off the address requirement, but I declined that.
C
.

I just called my cc processor. They offered to take off the CVV part of the transmission and I thanked them profusely. They also offered to take off the address requirement, but I declined that.
C

Which makes complete sense... since neither the CVV or AVS should result in a better rate for online transactions - they are all considered "card not present" and are downgraded to at least the mid-qualification level or worse.

 

[JBanczak]

Oke doke - we got to the bottom of this. Ben (our product manager) and Shane (developer) figured it out. Here is the story:
Every time someone would click on a webervations link or search on a site that David had setup to track referrals (sites like BBonline, BedandBreakfast.com, BNBFinder to name a few), three things would happen. First - it would save the IP of the person searching, second it would save the referral string (i.e. BBonline), third it would save the property webervations ID.
If the same IP address showed up again doing a search directly on the property site, the system would look and see if there was a referring site string stored (i.e. BBonline) matching the property ID stored that the IP was searching on. If there was a 3 way match, then the referring site stored would be credited with the booking. The IP address was never deleted - so if you came back a year later directly to the site, or I guess 10 years later, it would still credit the original site. This partially makes sense - in most referral scenarios, there is a period of time where the site who made the referral is recognized. For instance - in our deal with Kayak, if someone finds a B&B on Kayak, Kayak gets credit for 30 days. Same as all the sites through Commission Junction or most affiliate programs).
IF someone first went to BBonline, clicked onto a Webervations link, then went to BBcom and clicked on a Webervations link, the original referring site would be replaced with the last referring site. (which makes sense - that is how most trackers do it)
So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

 

[JBanczak]

John to give kudos to who it is due should be the actual last click through being the one that prompted the guest to book, not the first. Seems like it is backwards to me?
Maybe they saw us all over the web - beginning with bbonline but the huge high rez pics on bandb.com was what sold them?

Sorry if that wasn't clear, but that is what is happening and will remain - it is the last referring site. Same thing with most tracking (Google Analytics for instance).

 

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

John to give kudos to who it is due should be the actual last click through being the one that prompted the guest to book, not the first. Seems like it is backwards to me?
Maybe they saw us all over the web - beginning with bbonline but the huge high rez pics on bandb.com was what sold them?
EDITED - I REREAD IT. YES, GOOD JOB, MAKES SENSE TO ME.

 

[Copperhead]

Oke doke - we got to the bottom of this. Ben (our product manager) and Shane (developer) figured it out. Here is the story:
Every time someone would click on a webervations link or search on a site that David had setup to track referrals (sites like BBonline, BedandBreakfast.com, BNBFinder to name a few), three things would happen. First - it would save the IP of the person searching, second it would save the referral string (i.e. BBonline), third it would save the property webervations ID.
If the same IP address showed up again doing a search directly on the property site, the system would look and see if there was a referring site string stored (i.e. BBonline) matching the property ID stored that the IP was searching on. If there was a 3 way match, then the referring site stored would be credited with the booking. The IP address was never deleted - so if you came back a year later directly to the site, or I guess 10 years later, it would still credit the original site. This partially makes sense - in most referral scenarios, there is a period of time where the site who made the referral is recognized. For instance - in our deal with Kayak, if someone finds a B&B on Kayak, Kayak gets credit for 30 days. Same as all the sites through Commission Junction or most affiliate programs).
IF someone first went to BBonline, clicked onto a Webervations link, then went to BBcom and clicked on a Webervations link, the original referring site would be replaced with the last referring site. (which makes sense - that is how most trackers do it)
So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?

 

[JBanczak]

Oke doke - we got to the bottom of this. Ben (our product manager) and Shane (developer) figured it out. Here is the story:
Every time someone would click on a webervations link or search on a site that David had setup to track referrals (sites like BBonline, BedandBreakfast.com, BNBFinder to name a few), three things would happen. First - it would save the IP of the person searching, second it would save the referral string (i.e. BBonline), third it would save the property webervations ID.
If the same IP address showed up again doing a search directly on the property site, the system would look and see if there was a referring site string stored (i.e. BBonline) matching the property ID stored that the IP was searching on. If there was a 3 way match, then the referring site stored would be credited with the booking. The IP address was never deleted - so if you came back a year later directly to the site, or I guess 10 years later, it would still credit the original site. This partially makes sense - in most referral scenarios, there is a period of time where the site who made the referral is recognized. For instance - in our deal with Kayak, if someone finds a B&B on Kayak, Kayak gets credit for 30 days. Same as all the sites through Commission Junction or most affiliate programs).
IF someone first went to BBonline, clicked onto a Webervations link, then went to BBcom and clicked on a Webervations link, the original referring site would be replaced with the last referring site. (which makes sense - that is how most trackers do it)
So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?
.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?

Yes - if they looked at BBonline, clicked on a link from BBonline directly to a Webervations page, we would remember that for 30 days.
If they went from BBonline to your website, then from your website to a Webervations page - then it would show up as your website.
If they looked at BBonline, clicked on a Webervations link to your Weber page, then a few days later looked on BB.com, clicked on a Weber link to your Weber page - then it would remember BB.com for 30 days - not BBonline. Make sense?

 

[Copperhead]

Oke doke - we got to the bottom of this. Ben (our product manager) and Shane (developer) figured it out. Here is the story:
Every time someone would click on a webervations link or search on a site that David had setup to track referrals (sites like BBonline, BedandBreakfast.com, BNBFinder to name a few), three things would happen. First - it would save the IP of the person searching, second it would save the referral string (i.e. BBonline), third it would save the property webervations ID.
If the same IP address showed up again doing a search directly on the property site, the system would look and see if there was a referring site string stored (i.e. BBonline) matching the property ID stored that the IP was searching on. If there was a 3 way match, then the referring site stored would be credited with the booking. The IP address was never deleted - so if you came back a year later directly to the site, or I guess 10 years later, it would still credit the original site. This partially makes sense - in most referral scenarios, there is a period of time where the site who made the referral is recognized. For instance - in our deal with Kayak, if someone finds a B&B on Kayak, Kayak gets credit for 30 days. Same as all the sites through Commission Junction or most affiliate programs).
IF someone first went to BBonline, clicked onto a Webervations link, then went to BBcom and clicked on a Webervations link, the original referring site would be replaced with the last referring site. (which makes sense - that is how most trackers do it)
So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?
.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?

Yes - if they looked at BBonline, clicked on a link from BBonline directly to a Webervations page, we would remember that for 30 days.
If they went from BBonline to your website, then from your website to a Webervations page - then it would show up as your website.
If they looked at BBonline, clicked on a Webervations link to your Weber page, then a few days later looked on BB.com, clicked on a Weber link to your Weber page - then it would remember BB.com for 30 days - not BBonline. Make sense?
.

I guess my question was not clear...let me try one more time - pardon my consist questions -
Mary was researching for a possible trip this summer - she found bbonline and did some looking around including looking at ABC B&B and did click on the webervations link to check out prices and availability but she did NOT book, she was 'shopping'. Later that month (within 30 days), during a google search she finds XYZ B&B's website and goes to their webervations link and books... What will webervations show as the referring source? Note: Mary did not click on the webervations link for XYZ during her search on bbonline, only when she looked at their own website.
The reason for this question is I am wanting to know IF this tracking is always going to look for a directory source first and use it or is it going to use THE source that actually captured the reservation.
The other issue that you have not addressed (unless I missed it) was what about those B&B's that are NOT listed on the directory last searched, will the source still show the last directory they visited 30 days or less ago?
And one final issue (well as of now

) which I think I stated before, I do not like the use of the directory (referring source) in the subject field of the reservation. I believe that is confussing to the guest if the person did book (no matter how they got there) directly through the B&B's site. What should be there (since it can be programed to include more than Webervations...) is the B&B's name. That is what the guest will recognize.

 

[Morticia]

Oke doke - we got to the bottom of this. Ben (our product manager) and Shane (developer) figured it out. Here is the story:
Every time someone would click on a webervations link or search on a site that David had setup to track referrals (sites like BBonline, BedandBreakfast.com, BNBFinder to name a few), three things would happen. First - it would save the IP of the person searching, second it would save the referral string (i.e. BBonline), third it would save the property webervations ID.
If the same IP address showed up again doing a search directly on the property site, the system would look and see if there was a referring site string stored (i.e. BBonline) matching the property ID stored that the IP was searching on. If there was a 3 way match, then the referring site stored would be credited with the booking. The IP address was never deleted - so if you came back a year later directly to the site, or I guess 10 years later, it would still credit the original site. This partially makes sense - in most referral scenarios, there is a period of time where the site who made the referral is recognized. For instance - in our deal with Kayak, if someone finds a B&B on Kayak, Kayak gets credit for 30 days. Same as all the sites through Commission Junction or most affiliate programs).
IF someone first went to BBonline, clicked onto a Webervations link, then went to BBcom and clicked on a Webervations link, the original referring site would be replaced with the last referring site. (which makes sense - that is how most trackers do it)
So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?
.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?

Yes - if they looked at BBonline, clicked on a link from BBonline directly to a Webervations page, we would remember that for 30 days.
If they went from BBonline to your website, then from your website to a Webervations page - then it would show up as your website.
If they looked at BBonline, clicked on a Webervations link to your Weber page, then a few days later looked on BB.com, clicked on a Weber link to your Weber page - then it would remember BB.com for 30 days - not BBonline. Make sense?
.

I guess my question was not clear...let me try one more time - pardon my consist questions -
Mary was researching for a possible trip this summer - she found bbonline and did some looking around including looking at ABC B&B and did click on the webervations link to check out prices and availability but she did NOT book, she was 'shopping'. Later that month (within 30 days), during a google search she finds XYZ B&B's website and goes to their webervations link and books... What will webervations show as the referring source? Note: Mary did not click on the webervations link for XYZ during her search on bbonline, only when she looked at their own website.
The reason for this question is I am wanting to know IF this tracking is always going to look for a directory source first and use it or is it going to use THE source that actually captured the reservation.
The other issue that you have not addressed (unless I missed it) was what about those B&B's that are NOT listed on the directory last searched, will the source still show the last directory they visited 30 days or less ago?
And one final issue (well as of now

) which I think I stated before, I do not like the use of the directory (referring source) in the subject field of the reservation. I believe that is confussing to the guest if the person did book (no matter how they got there) directly through the B&B's site. What should be there (since it can be programed to include more than Webervations...) is the B&B's name. That is what the guest will recognize.
.

And one final issue (well as of now

) which I think I stated before, I do not like the use of the directory (referring source) in the subject field of the reservation. I believe that is confussing to the guest if the person did book (no matter how they got there) directly through the B&B's site. What should be there (since it can be programed to include more than Webervations...) is the B&B's name. That is what the guest will recognize.

I'm going to skip all of the other questions and focus on this one...does the guest get an immediate reply from Webervations that they have made a booking request? Does THAT email have what you are questioning or is it only the email that comes to YOU saying you have a rez request that shows the name of the directory in the subject field?
As far as I would be concerned, NONE of the emails should state anything in the subject line about WHAT directory 'sent' the guest. The email either you or the guest receives should say what you think...the name of the B&B or, in the case of the email to the B&B, all that needs be said is 'Reservation request pending' or some such. If the guest gets an immediate response email, THAT subject line could read: XYZ B&B Reservation Request.
If the referral is captured, it will show in the booking. It doesn't need to show in the email and confuse you or the guest.
Obviously, if you are receiving reservations from multiple sources (NOT all Webervations, but other sources as well) then you would want to know where the email came from. I think most directories have that in the subject line: Inquiry from (directory name here). But that's an inquiry, not a reservation, altho sometimes guests don't realize that.
If the referrals that are being captured are misleading, that's another issue, as you've stated.

 

[Copperhead]

Oke doke - we got to the bottom of this. Ben (our product manager) and Shane (developer) figured it out. Here is the story:
Every time someone would click on a webervations link or search on a site that David had setup to track referrals (sites like BBonline, BedandBreakfast.com, BNBFinder to name a few), three things would happen. First - it would save the IP of the person searching, second it would save the referral string (i.e. BBonline), third it would save the property webervations ID.
If the same IP address showed up again doing a search directly on the property site, the system would look and see if there was a referring site string stored (i.e. BBonline) matching the property ID stored that the IP was searching on. If there was a 3 way match, then the referring site stored would be credited with the booking. The IP address was never deleted - so if you came back a year later directly to the site, or I guess 10 years later, it would still credit the original site. This partially makes sense - in most referral scenarios, there is a period of time where the site who made the referral is recognized. For instance - in our deal with Kayak, if someone finds a B&B on Kayak, Kayak gets credit for 30 days. Same as all the sites through Commission Junction or most affiliate programs).
IF someone first went to BBonline, clicked onto a Webervations link, then went to BBcom and clicked on a Webervations link, the original referring site would be replaced with the last referring site. (which makes sense - that is how most trackers do it)
So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?
.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?

Yes - if they looked at BBonline, clicked on a link from BBonline directly to a Webervations page, we would remember that for 30 days.
If they went from BBonline to your website, then from your website to a Webervations page - then it would show up as your website.
If they looked at BBonline, clicked on a Webervations link to your Weber page, then a few days later looked on BB.com, clicked on a Weber link to your Weber page - then it would remember BB.com for 30 days - not BBonline. Make sense?
.

I guess my question was not clear...let me try one more time - pardon my consist questions -
Mary was researching for a possible trip this summer - she found bbonline and did some looking around including looking at ABC B&B and did click on the webervations link to check out prices and availability but she did NOT book, she was 'shopping'. Later that month (within 30 days), during a google search she finds XYZ B&B's website and goes to their webervations link and books... What will webervations show as the referring source? Note: Mary did not click on the webervations link for XYZ during her search on bbonline, only when she looked at their own website.
The reason for this question is I am wanting to know IF this tracking is always going to look for a directory source first and use it or is it going to use THE source that actually captured the reservation.
The other issue that you have not addressed (unless I missed it) was what about those B&B's that are NOT listed on the directory last searched, will the source still show the last directory they visited 30 days or less ago?
And one final issue (well as of now

) which I think I stated before, I do not like the use of the directory (referring source) in the subject field of the reservation. I believe that is confussing to the guest if the person did book (no matter how they got there) directly through the B&B's site. What should be there (since it can be programed to include more than Webervations...) is the B&B's name. That is what the guest will recognize.
.

And one final issue (well as of now

) which I think I stated before, I do not like the use of the directory (referring source) in the subject field of the reservation. I believe that is confussing to the guest if the person did book (no matter how they got there) directly through the B&B's site. What should be there (since it can be programed to include more than Webervations...) is the B&B's name. That is what the guest will recognize.

I'm going to skip all of the other questions and focus on this one...does the guest get an immediate reply from Webervations that they have made a booking request? Does THAT email have what you are questioning or is it only the email that comes to YOU saying you have a rez request that shows the name of the directory in the subject field?
As far as I would be concerned, NONE of the emails should state anything in the subject line about WHAT directory 'sent' the guest. The email either you or the guest receives should say what you think...the name of the B&B or, in the case of the email to the B&B, all that needs be said is 'Reservation request pending' or some such. If the guest gets an immediate response email, THAT subject line could read: XYZ B&B Reservation Request.
If the referral is captured, it will show in the booking. It doesn't need to show in the email and confuse you or the guest.
Obviously, if you are receiving reservations from multiple sources (NOT all Webervations, but other sources as well) then you would want to know where the email came from. I think most directories have that in the subject line: Inquiry from (directory name here). But that's an inquiry, not a reservation, altho sometimes guests don't realize that.
If the referrals that are being captured are misleading, that's another issue, as you've stated.
.

Bree wrote: does the guest get an immediate reply from Webervations that they have made a booking request? Does THAT email have what you are questioning or is it only the email that comes to YOU saying you have a rez request that shows the name of the directory in the subject field?
Yes, the guest does get an immediate reply from webervations (and in my case, it stated bandb.com in the subject) - If you use Webervations do a test reservation and use a seperate email address in the guest email field of the form...If you want to make sure you see a directory in the subject line, check John's comments as to how they are currently getting this data so you can see this for yourself.
Bree wrote: If the guest gets an immediate response email, THAT subject line could read: XYZ B&B Reservation Request.
Yes, I agree with this 100% anything else is just plain confussing for the guest. - They have no Idea what Webervations is nor should it contain any referer as the Guest will not remember what source they used or how they found the B&B - only thing they will remember is that they booked a B&B in X town - they may not even remember the B&B's name...but THAT is what should appear on the guest reservation request - the B&B's name!!!

 

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

Oke doke - we got to the bottom of this. Ben (our product manager) and Shane (developer) figured it out. Here is the story:
Every time someone would click on a webervations link or search on a site that David had setup to track referrals (sites like BBonline, BedandBreakfast.com, BNBFinder to name a few), three things would happen. First - it would save the IP of the person searching, second it would save the referral string (i.e. BBonline), third it would save the property webervations ID.
If the same IP address showed up again doing a search directly on the property site, the system would look and see if there was a referring site string stored (i.e. BBonline) matching the property ID stored that the IP was searching on. If there was a 3 way match, then the referring site stored would be credited with the booking. The IP address was never deleted - so if you came back a year later directly to the site, or I guess 10 years later, it would still credit the original site. This partially makes sense - in most referral scenarios, there is a period of time where the site who made the referral is recognized. For instance - in our deal with Kayak, if someone finds a B&B on Kayak, Kayak gets credit for 30 days. Same as all the sites through Commission Junction or most affiliate programs).
IF someone first went to BBonline, clicked onto a Webervations link, then went to BBcom and clicked on a Webervations link, the original referring site would be replaced with the last referring site. (which makes sense - that is how most trackers do it)
So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?
.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?

Yes - if they looked at BBonline, clicked on a link from BBonline directly to a Webervations page, we would remember that for 30 days.
If they went from BBonline to your website, then from your website to a Webervations page - then it would show up as your website.
If they looked at BBonline, clicked on a Webervations link to your Weber page, then a few days later looked on BB.com, clicked on a Weber link to your Weber page - then it would remember BB.com for 30 days - not BBonline. Make sense?
.

I guess my question was not clear...let me try one more time - pardon my consist questions -
Mary was researching for a possible trip this summer - she found bbonline and did some looking around including looking at ABC B&B and did click on the webervations link to check out prices and availability but she did NOT book, she was 'shopping'. Later that month (within 30 days), during a google search she finds XYZ B&B's website and goes to their webervations link and books... What will webervations show as the referring source? Note: Mary did not click on the webervations link for XYZ during her search on bbonline, only when she looked at their own website.
The reason for this question is I am wanting to know IF this tracking is always going to look for a directory source first and use it or is it going to use THE source that actually captured the reservation.
The other issue that you have not addressed (unless I missed it) was what about those B&B's that are NOT listed on the directory last searched, will the source still show the last directory they visited 30 days or less ago?
And one final issue (well as of now

) which I think I stated before, I do not like the use of the directory (referring source) in the subject field of the reservation. I believe that is confussing to the guest if the person did book (no matter how they got there) directly through the B&B's site. What should be there (since it can be programed to include more than Webervations...) is the B&B's name. That is what the guest will recognize.
.

And one final issue (well as of now

) which I think I stated before, I do not like the use of the directory (referring source) in the subject field of the reservation. I believe that is confussing to the guest if the person did book (no matter how they got there) directly through the B&B's site. What should be there (since it can be programed to include more than Webervations...) is the B&B's name. That is what the guest will recognize.

I'm going to skip all of the other questions and focus on this one...does the guest get an immediate reply from Webervations that they have made a booking request? Does THAT email have what you are questioning or is it only the email that comes to YOU saying you have a rez request that shows the name of the directory in the subject field?
As far as I would be concerned, NONE of the emails should state anything in the subject line about WHAT directory 'sent' the guest. The email either you or the guest receives should say what you think...the name of the B&B or, in the case of the email to the B&B, all that needs be said is 'Reservation request pending' or some such. If the guest gets an immediate response email, THAT subject line could read: XYZ B&B Reservation Request.
If the referral is captured, it will show in the booking. It doesn't need to show in the email and confuse you or the guest.
Obviously, if you are receiving reservations from multiple sources (NOT all Webervations, but other sources as well) then you would want to know where the email came from. I think most directories have that in the subject line: Inquiry from (directory name here). But that's an inquiry, not a reservation, altho sometimes guests don't realize that.
If the referrals that are being captured are misleading, that's another issue, as you've stated.
.

Bree Wrote: I'm going to skip all of the other questions and focus on this one...does the guest get an immediate reply from Webervations that they have made a booking request? Does THAT email have what you are questioning or is it only the email that comes to YOU saying you have a rez request that shows the name of the directory in the subject field?
As far as I would be concerned, NONE of the emails should state anything in the subject line about WHAT directory 'sent' the guest. The email either you or the guest receives should say what you think...the name of the B&B or, in the case of the email to the B&B, all that needs be said is 'Reservation request pending' or some such. If the guest gets an immediate response email, THAT subject line could read: XYZ B&B Reservation Request.
You are 100% correct and when a guest books they are booking this B&B, and when they call because the confirmation went into the SPAM filter (which they do) I have to tell them No, it will say something like "Webervations Reservation!!"
You are correct, it does not even state the B&B name, it does not state it is a B&B reservation, We HOPE guests can figure that out.

 

[Morticia]

Oke doke - we got to the bottom of this. Ben (our product manager) and Shane (developer) figured it out. Here is the story:
Every time someone would click on a webervations link or search on a site that David had setup to track referrals (sites like BBonline, BedandBreakfast.com, BNBFinder to name a few), three things would happen. First - it would save the IP of the person searching, second it would save the referral string (i.e. BBonline), third it would save the property webervations ID.
If the same IP address showed up again doing a search directly on the property site, the system would look and see if there was a referring site string stored (i.e. BBonline) matching the property ID stored that the IP was searching on. If there was a 3 way match, then the referring site stored would be credited with the booking. The IP address was never deleted - so if you came back a year later directly to the site, or I guess 10 years later, it would still credit the original site. This partially makes sense - in most referral scenarios, there is a period of time where the site who made the referral is recognized. For instance - in our deal with Kayak, if someone finds a B&B on Kayak, Kayak gets credit for 30 days. Same as all the sites through Commission Junction or most affiliate programs).
IF someone first went to BBonline, clicked onto a Webervations link, then went to BBcom and clicked on a Webervations link, the original referring site would be replaced with the last referring site. (which makes sense - that is how most trackers do it)
So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?
.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?

Yes - if they looked at BBonline, clicked on a link from BBonline directly to a Webervations page, we would remember that for 30 days.
If they went from BBonline to your website, then from your website to a Webervations page - then it would show up as your website.
If they looked at BBonline, clicked on a Webervations link to your Weber page, then a few days later looked on BB.com, clicked on a Weber link to your Weber page - then it would remember BB.com for 30 days - not BBonline. Make sense?
.

I guess my question was not clear...let me try one more time - pardon my consist questions -
Mary was researching for a possible trip this summer - she found bbonline and did some looking around including looking at ABC B&B and did click on the webervations link to check out prices and availability but she did NOT book, she was 'shopping'. Later that month (within 30 days), during a google search she finds XYZ B&B's website and goes to their webervations link and books... What will webervations show as the referring source? Note: Mary did not click on the webervations link for XYZ during her search on bbonline, only when she looked at their own website.
The reason for this question is I am wanting to know IF this tracking is always going to look for a directory source first and use it or is it going to use THE source that actually captured the reservation.
The other issue that you have not addressed (unless I missed it) was what about those B&B's that are NOT listed on the directory last searched, will the source still show the last directory they visited 30 days or less ago?
And one final issue (well as of now

) which I think I stated before, I do not like the use of the directory (referring source) in the subject field of the reservation. I believe that is confussing to the guest if the person did book (no matter how they got there) directly through the B&B's site. What should be there (since it can be programed to include more than Webervations...) is the B&B's name. That is what the guest will recognize.
.

And one final issue (well as of now

) which I think I stated before, I do not like the use of the directory (referring source) in the subject field of the reservation. I believe that is confussing to the guest if the person did book (no matter how they got there) directly through the B&B's site. What should be there (since it can be programed to include more than Webervations...) is the B&B's name. That is what the guest will recognize.

I'm going to skip all of the other questions and focus on this one...does the guest get an immediate reply from Webervations that they have made a booking request? Does THAT email have what you are questioning or is it only the email that comes to YOU saying you have a rez request that shows the name of the directory in the subject field?
As far as I would be concerned, NONE of the emails should state anything in the subject line about WHAT directory 'sent' the guest. The email either you or the guest receives should say what you think...the name of the B&B or, in the case of the email to the B&B, all that needs be said is 'Reservation request pending' or some such. If the guest gets an immediate response email, THAT subject line could read: XYZ B&B Reservation Request.
If the referral is captured, it will show in the booking. It doesn't need to show in the email and confuse you or the guest.
Obviously, if you are receiving reservations from multiple sources (NOT all Webervations, but other sources as well) then you would want to know where the email came from. I think most directories have that in the subject line: Inquiry from (directory name here). But that's an inquiry, not a reservation, altho sometimes guests don't realize that.
If the referrals that are being captured are misleading, that's another issue, as you've stated.
.

Bree Wrote: I'm going to skip all of the other questions and focus on this one...does the guest get an immediate reply from Webervations that they have made a booking request? Does THAT email have what you are questioning or is it only the email that comes to YOU saying you have a rez request that shows the name of the directory in the subject field?
As far as I would be concerned, NONE of the emails should state anything in the subject line about WHAT directory 'sent' the guest. The email either you or the guest receives should say what you think...the name of the B&B or, in the case of the email to the B&B, all that needs be said is 'Reservation request pending' or some such. If the guest gets an immediate response email, THAT subject line could read: XYZ B&B Reservation Request.
You are 100% correct and when a guest books they are booking this B&B, and when they call because the confirmation went into the SPAM filter (which they do) I have to tell them No, it will say something like "Webervations Reservation!!"
You are correct, it does not even state the B&B name, it does not state it is a B&B reservation, We HOPE guests can figure that out.
.

Bree Wrote: I'm going to skip all of the other questions and focus on this one...does the guest get an immediate reply from Webervations that they have made a booking request? Does THAT email have what you are questioning or is it only the email that comes to YOU saying you have a rez request that shows the name of the directory in the subject field?
As far as I would be concerned, NONE of the emails should state anything in the subject line about WHAT directory 'sent' the guest. The email either you or the guest receives should say what you think...the name of the B&B or, in the case of the email to the B&B, all that needs be said is 'Reservation request pending' or some such. If the guest gets an immediate response email, THAT subject line could read: XYZ B&B Reservation Request.
You are 100% correct and when a guest books they are booking this B&B, and when they call because the confirmation went into the SPAM filter (which they do) I have to tell them No, it will say something like "Webervations Reservation!!"
You are correct, it does not even state the B&B name, it does not state it is a B&B reservation, We HOPE guests can figure that out.

Is this the confirmation you send out or is this auto generated? If it's the one you send, if it's possible to change the subject line before mailing, then I would. I change the subject line of my confirmations even tho it says, 'XYZ B&B Reservation Confirmation'.

 

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

Oke doke - we got to the bottom of this. Ben (our product manager) and Shane (developer) figured it out. Here is the story:
Every time someone would click on a webervations link or search on a site that David had setup to track referrals (sites like BBonline, BedandBreakfast.com, BNBFinder to name a few), three things would happen. First - it would save the IP of the person searching, second it would save the referral string (i.e. BBonline), third it would save the property webervations ID.
If the same IP address showed up again doing a search directly on the property site, the system would look and see if there was a referring site string stored (i.e. BBonline) matching the property ID stored that the IP was searching on. If there was a 3 way match, then the referring site stored would be credited with the booking. The IP address was never deleted - so if you came back a year later directly to the site, or I guess 10 years later, it would still credit the original site. This partially makes sense - in most referral scenarios, there is a period of time where the site who made the referral is recognized. For instance - in our deal with Kayak, if someone finds a B&B on Kayak, Kayak gets credit for 30 days. Same as all the sites through Commission Junction or most affiliate programs).
IF someone first went to BBonline, clicked onto a Webervations link, then went to BBcom and clicked on a Webervations link, the original referring site would be replaced with the last referring site. (which makes sense - that is how most trackers do it)
So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?
.

So - our plan is to put in a timestamp on this, and when we find the 3 way match, we would check to make sure the last search was within 30 days, or we would not attached any referring source. Does this make sense?

I am truly impressed with the quickness that you guys are taking on these issues. I wish that all innkeepers would look at this forum and read how our issues are being addressed.
Just one more clarification please - Just to be clear for all that read this, if someone looked at bbonline in less than 30 days before booking directly through my website, it will show bbonline as the referring source, not my website - is that correct?

Yes - if they looked at BBonline, clicked on a link from BBonline directly to a Webervations page, we would remember that for 30 days.
If they went from BBonline to your website, then from your website to a Webervations page - then it would show up as your website.
If they looked at BBonline, clicked on a Webervations link to your Weber page, then a few days later looked on BB.com, clicked on a Weber link to your Weber page - then it would remember BB.com for 30 days - not BBonline. Make sense?
.

I guess my question was not clear...let me try one more time - pardon my consist questions -
Mary was researching for a possible trip this summer - she found bbonline and did some looking around including looking at ABC B&B and did click on the webervations link to check out prices and availability but she did NOT book, she was 'shopping'. Later that month (within 30 days), during a google search she finds XYZ B&B's website and goes to their webervations link and books... What will webervations show as the referring source? Note: Mary did not click on the webervations link for XYZ during her search on bbonline, only when she looked at their own website.
The reason for this question is I am wanting to know IF this tracking is always going to look for a directory source first and use it or is it going to use THE source that actually captured the reservation.
The other issue that you have not addressed (unless I missed it) was what about those B&B's that are NOT listed on the directory last searched, will the source still show the last directory they visited 30 days or less ago?
And one final issue (well as of now

) which I think I stated before, I do not like the use of the directory (referring source) in the subject field of the reservation. I believe that is confussing to the guest if the person did book (no matter how they got there) directly through the B&B's site. What should be there (since it can be programed to include more than Webervations...) is the B&B's name. That is what the guest will recognize.
.

And one final issue (well as of now

) which I think I stated before, I do not like the use of the directory (referring source) in the subject field of the reservation. I believe that is confussing to the guest if the person did book (no matter how they got there) directly through the B&B's site. What should be there (since it can be programed to include more than Webervations...) is the B&B's name. That is what the guest will recognize.

I'm going to skip all of the other questions and focus on this one...does the guest get an immediate reply from Webervations that they have made a booking request? Does THAT email have what you are questioning or is it only the email that comes to YOU saying you have a rez request that shows the name of the directory in the subject field?
As far as I would be concerned, NONE of the emails should state anything in the subject line about WHAT directory 'sent' the guest. The email either you or the guest receives should say what you think...the name of the B&B or, in the case of the email to the B&B, all that needs be said is 'Reservation request pending' or some such. If the guest gets an immediate response email, THAT subject line could read: XYZ B&B Reservation Request.
If the referral is captured, it will show in the booking. It doesn't need to show in the email and confuse you or the guest.
Obviously, if you are receiving reservations from multiple sources (NOT all Webervations, but other sources as well) then you would want to know where the email came from. I think most directories have that in the subject line: Inquiry from (directory name here). But that's an inquiry, not a reservation, altho sometimes guests don't realize that.
If the referrals that are being captured are misleading, that's another issue, as you've stated.
.

Bree Wrote: I'm going to skip all of the other questions and focus on this one...does the guest get an immediate reply from Webervations that they have made a booking request? Does THAT email have what you are questioning or is it only the email that comes to YOU saying you have a rez request that shows the name of the directory in the subject field?
As far as I would be concerned, NONE of the emails should state anything in the subject line about WHAT directory 'sent' the guest. The email either you or the guest receives should say what you think...the name of the B&B or, in the case of the email to the B&B, all that needs be said is 'Reservation request pending' or some such. If the guest gets an immediate response email, THAT subject line could read: XYZ B&B Reservation Request.
You are 100% correct and when a guest books they are booking this B&B, and when they call because the confirmation went into the SPAM filter (which they do) I have to tell them No, it will say something like "Webervations Reservation!!"
You are correct, it does not even state the B&B name, it does not state it is a B&B reservation, We HOPE guests can figure that out.
.

Bree Wrote: I'm going to skip all of the other questions and focus on this one...does the guest get an immediate reply from Webervations that they have made a booking request? Does THAT email have what you are questioning or is it only the email that comes to YOU saying you have a rez request that shows the name of the directory in the subject field?
As far as I would be concerned, NONE of the emails should state anything in the subject line about WHAT directory 'sent' the guest. The email either you or the guest receives should say what you think...the name of the B&B or, in the case of the email to the B&B, all that needs be said is 'Reservation request pending' or some such. If the guest gets an immediate response email, THAT subject line could read: XYZ B&B Reservation Request.
You are 100% correct and when a guest books they are booking this B&B, and when they call because the confirmation went into the SPAM filter (which they do) I have to tell them No, it will say something like "Webervations Reservation!!"
You are correct, it does not even state the B&B name, it does not state it is a B&B reservation, We HOPE guests can figure that out.

Is this the confirmation you send out or is this auto generated? If it's the one you send, if it's possible to change the subject line before mailing, then I would. I change the subject line of my confirmations even tho it says, 'XYZ B&B Reservation Confirmation'.
.

Is this the confirmation you send out or is this auto generated? If it's the one you send, if it's possible to change the subject line before mailing, then I would. I change the subject line of my confirmations even tho it says, 'XYZ B&B Reservation Confirmation'.

Nope it is auto generated - for 4 1/2 years I sent out my own confirmation - but finally went with the auto confirmation with all our details in it. Subject line is out of our control tho as Webervations users.