Directory listing

[Eric Goldreyer]

Thanks for the welcome, Swirt!
I would still like to hear an answer to my question, and it seems the answer could have come from Sandy or Eric and not just John. The question is, that since you all feel so strongly that the other site stole your hard work and that you have been wronged, have you actually contacted and talked to anyone at that site? It was put before the public in this forum, but confronting them first, privately, seems like the right way to handle an issue. Cuz two wrongs don't make it right!
The other thing I hear is, Eric, you sure seem to take a personal affront to the negative comments, and your assumptions about why it is affecting those of us who show an attitude contrary to yours is completely condescending. And they were true, then it defies your rationale for raising your prices!
You keep going on and on promoting how great you guys are and NO ONE else is as great as you guys. The reality is that you are part of a huge company which allows you to afford much more and quote lots of big statistics to prove it. So you raised your rates and feel justified doing so. Fine. Now just let us decide what is best for us and stop whining that we don't love you after all you have done for us and the industry. It sure sounds like posturing to me and it isn't becoming..

Sorry... I didn't get your name...?
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
I didn't realize there was anything wrong with being so tied into and caring so much about the business that I take it personally...?? It's my company. Seems to be somewhat logical as the face of the company and someone (anyone for that matter) that pours everything they have into something - be passionate about it and take negative feedback personally. I guess I do not see that as a negative quality. But you feel free to see it however you like. I am not lecturing or trying to convert you. I am explaining my POV. Maybe I should just not give a toot...
I see nothing wrong with the logic of raising my prices no more than I would expect you as a business person not to set your room prices based upon what folks could afford to pay but rather based on the value you provide and the costs you incur. I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
Cheers,
Eric
.

Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...

Um... don't talk about ethics and then break your own Terms and Agreements.

Maybe I should just not give a toot...

Oh, you should definitely give a toot. And I really like that about you!

I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.

Well, actually, i don't keep my prices low for a particular couple, but I do have to keep them reasonable or have no one come at all.

I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...

How are we not a representative sample? Actually, we're not representative in that we are significantly more internet and marketing savvy... Hmm... so you're going after the less savvy? Naw, couldn't be that...
No, condescending is when you tell an innkeeper, "Your website's no good, let us build one for you."

Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...

LOL! Listen to yourself!

Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...

CONDESCENSION!! [Sorry, I can't talk with you little people anymore, gotta go do real work.]
PROMOTION!! [Here I am, working for you! Yay us!]
CONDESCENSION!! [Here I am, in Vegas with the big guys, where I belong!]
PROMOTION!! [we're the leading B&B directory]
Sorry, couldn't resist...

No hard feelings, OK?
=)
Kk.
.

<Yellowsocks>

Eric Goldreyer wrote:
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
Um... don't talk about ethics and then break your own Terms and Agreements.
<Eric>
One was intentional and one was not and has been fixed...
<Yellowsocks>

Eric wrote:
I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
Well, actually, i don't keep my prices low for a particular couple, but I do have to keep them reasonable or have no one come at all.

<Eric>
Agreed. The point was that your pricing is based mor eon your costs and the value, than one's ability to pay, to the degree that you have a business that will sustain that.
<Yellowsocks>

Eric wrote:
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
How are we not a representative sample? Actually, we're not representative in that we are significantly more internet and marketing savvy... Hmm... so you're going after the less savvy? Naw, couldn't be that...
<Eric>
Well... just by the definaition. If you guys as a group don't match the industry averages, then you are not a representative sample of the industry. If your ADR as a group is higher or lower, if your RevPar is higher or lower. If your occupancy is higher or lower.. Maybe you actually are but I meant it only as one would expect...
<Yellowsocks>
No, condescending is when you tell an innkeeper, "Your website's no good, let us build one for you."
<Eric>
Well... I guess the question is is it true or not? I really have not looked at your website. But some people would just call that honesty if it really does need work... If your website really does need work, I hope someone would tell you because I can assure you it is costing you thousands of dollars a year in lost business if that is the case so I'd be thankful someone let you know..
<Yellowsocks>
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
LOL! Listen to yourself!
<Eric>
I did. I don't find it funny at all. I find it genuine.
<Yellowsocks>
Eric wrote:
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
CONDESCENSION!! [Sorry, I can't talk with you little people anymore, gotta go do real work.]
PROMOTION!! [Here I am, working for you! Yay us!]
CONDESCENSION!! [Here I am, in Vegas with the big guys, where I belong!]
PROMOTION!! [we're the leading B&B directory]
<Eric> This reminds me of the saying that "Perception is reality". It seems clear that regardless of what we say, you guys are hearing whatever you want to hear. If the fact that my entire exec team has spent the better part of the last few days on this board while out on vacation, traveling for buisness, or on a religious holiday makes you think that we feel you are "little people" we clearly are wasting our time here.
Cheers,
Eric

 

[Eric Goldreyer]

Thanks for the welcome, Swirt!
I would still like to hear an answer to my question, and it seems the answer could have come from Sandy or Eric and not just John. The question is, that since you all feel so strongly that the other site stole your hard work and that you have been wronged, have you actually contacted and talked to anyone at that site? It was put before the public in this forum, but confronting them first, privately, seems like the right way to handle an issue. Cuz two wrongs don't make it right!
The other thing I hear is, Eric, you sure seem to take a personal affront to the negative comments, and your assumptions about why it is affecting those of us who show an attitude contrary to yours is completely condescending. And they were true, then it defies your rationale for raising your prices!
You keep going on and on promoting how great you guys are and NO ONE else is as great as you guys. The reality is that you are part of a huge company which allows you to afford much more and quote lots of big statistics to prove it. So you raised your rates and feel justified doing so. Fine. Now just let us decide what is best for us and stop whining that we don't love you after all you have done for us and the industry. It sure sounds like posturing to me and it isn't becoming..

Sorry... I didn't get your name...?
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
I didn't realize there was anything wrong with being so tied into and caring so much about the business that I take it personally...?? It's my company. Seems to be somewhat logical as the face of the company and someone (anyone for that matter) that pours everything they have into something - be passionate about it and take negative feedback personally. I guess I do not see that as a negative quality. But you feel free to see it however you like. I am not lecturing or trying to convert you. I am explaining my POV. Maybe I should just not give a toot...
I see nothing wrong with the logic of raising my prices no more than I would expect you as a business person not to set your room prices based upon what folks could afford to pay but rather based on the value you provide and the costs you incur. I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
Cheers,
Eric
.

Sorry... I didn't get your name...?
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
I didn't realize there was anything wrong with being so tied into and caring so much about the business that I take it personally...?? It's my company. Seems to be somewhat logical as the face of the company and someone (anyone for that matter) that pours everything they have into something - be passionate about it and take negative feedback personally. I guess I do not see that as a negative quality. But you feel free to see it however you like. I am not lecturing or trying to convert you. I am explaining my POV. Maybe I should just not give a toot...
I see nothing wrong with the logic of raising my prices no more than I would expect you as a business person not to set your room prices based upon what folks could afford to pay but rather based on the value you provide and the costs you incur. I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
Cheers,
Eric

Every small business makes decisions on pricing everyday. We, of course, raise out rates. 6%. Now, my fuel bill went up 100% this year. It will be 10% of my income to pay that bill this coming year. Can I raise my rates to cover that? Absolutely not. I offer good value, but certainly not a $150/night difference in the experience from last year to next year. What I will have to do to get the wary traveler in the door who just lost half their portfolio overnight and may think a weekend away an indulgence this winter, is to LOWER my rates as I cannot afford to add more amenities to keep the prices the same, much less raise them in my off season. We are not a 5 star property that pulls its clientele from the rich. We cater to Middle America. The group that is hardest hit in any and all economic downturns.
Like I said in another post, you still bring a 10:1 value for my dollar. Actually it just dropped to 10:1 with the price increase. (So, yes, I can attribute $3490 to guests who say they used your site to find me.) I'll go for the price increase this year. If there's no value to it next year, I'll spend my exceedingly hard-earned buckeroos elsewhere. It remains to be seen if the 30% increase is worth it to me.
It's good that your work on the website you own has brought in innkeepers who need not watch every dime and thus do not complain. Would that I could be so casual with my money as well.
Just a thought...if you just once say, 'I hear you, I understand times are tough, let me look at what we can do,' you would get a lot further with this small, but vocal and connected group, than all the 'This is what we're doing, like it or leave.' That works with employees, not customers.
.

Bree,
Thanks for the input.
You might like to know that based on innkeeper feedback we invested considerable resources to launch monthly billing for membership -specifically to address the economy issue so innkeepers could pay monthly and smooth out their cash flows.
Now a new member can join and most likely pay for their membership as the year progresses from the buisness they get from the site.
Cheers,
Eric.

 

[IronGate]

Thanks for the welcome, Swirt!
I would still like to hear an answer to my question, and it seems the answer could have come from Sandy or Eric and not just John. The question is, that since you all feel so strongly that the other site stole your hard work and that you have been wronged, have you actually contacted and talked to anyone at that site? It was put before the public in this forum, but confronting them first, privately, seems like the right way to handle an issue. Cuz two wrongs don't make it right!
The other thing I hear is, Eric, you sure seem to take a personal affront to the negative comments, and your assumptions about why it is affecting those of us who show an attitude contrary to yours is completely condescending. And they were true, then it defies your rationale for raising your prices!
You keep going on and on promoting how great you guys are and NO ONE else is as great as you guys. The reality is that you are part of a huge company which allows you to afford much more and quote lots of big statistics to prove it. So you raised your rates and feel justified doing so. Fine. Now just let us decide what is best for us and stop whining that we don't love you after all you have done for us and the industry. It sure sounds like posturing to me and it isn't becoming..

Sorry... I didn't get your name...?
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
I didn't realize there was anything wrong with being so tied into and caring so much about the business that I take it personally...?? It's my company. Seems to be somewhat logical as the face of the company and someone (anyone for that matter) that pours everything they have into something - be passionate about it and take negative feedback personally. I guess I do not see that as a negative quality. But you feel free to see it however you like. I am not lecturing or trying to convert you. I am explaining my POV. Maybe I should just not give a toot...
I see nothing wrong with the logic of raising my prices no more than I would expect you as a business person not to set your room prices based upon what folks could afford to pay but rather based on the value you provide and the costs you incur. I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
Cheers,
Eric
.

Wow, you know, it was hard enough to swallow the breaking of your terms and agreements and the idea of forking out even more money to you before all of your posts.... After seeing where this has gone with all of your replies, particularly the condescention, wow, you've said a lot here in the course of this discussion, and it's reflected a lot of light on you and your business.
Remember, we too, refer other B&B's and aspirings to you.
I think I seriously need to reconsider whether I want to do business with B&B.com at all. "You ain't all that!"
And another thing, I think we are a great representation of your average innkeeper. Perhaps we should do a poll on how many of us came here via the message boards on bandb.com. I did.
.

I have to say I think it is a bit odd that folks can post anonymously here. It doesn't seem right to be able to say whatever you want and not even let folks know who you are. It seems folkks would be a little more cordial and professional if everyone had th ebenefit of knowing who they were... We are not hiding... but whatever...
The lack of a seven day notice was my fault as I posted on another reply already and we have changed the new rates to not go into effect until Friday.
Eric
PS. Where was i condscending?
.

I have to say I think it is a bit odd that folks can post anonymously here. It doesn't seem right to be able to say whatever you want and not even let folks know who you are. It seems folkks would be a little more cordial and professional if everyone had th ebenefit of knowing who they were... We are not hiding... but whatever...
. . .

People don't have to post at all.
But they do.

 

[gillumhouse]

Thanks for the welcome, Swirt!
I would still like to hear an answer to my question, and it seems the answer could have come from Sandy or Eric and not just John. The question is, that since you all feel so strongly that the other site stole your hard work and that you have been wronged, have you actually contacted and talked to anyone at that site? It was put before the public in this forum, but confronting them first, privately, seems like the right way to handle an issue. Cuz two wrongs don't make it right!
The other thing I hear is, Eric, you sure seem to take a personal affront to the negative comments, and your assumptions about why it is affecting those of us who show an attitude contrary to yours is completely condescending. And they were true, then it defies your rationale for raising your prices!
You keep going on and on promoting how great you guys are and NO ONE else is as great as you guys. The reality is that you are part of a huge company which allows you to afford much more and quote lots of big statistics to prove it. So you raised your rates and feel justified doing so. Fine. Now just let us decide what is best for us and stop whining that we don't love you after all you have done for us and the industry. It sure sounds like posturing to me and it isn't becoming..

Sorry... I didn't get your name...?
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
I didn't realize there was anything wrong with being so tied into and caring so much about the business that I take it personally...?? It's my company. Seems to be somewhat logical as the face of the company and someone (anyone for that matter) that pours everything they have into something - be passionate about it and take negative feedback personally. I guess I do not see that as a negative quality. But you feel free to see it however you like. I am not lecturing or trying to convert you. I am explaining my POV. Maybe I should just not give a toot...
I see nothing wrong with the logic of raising my prices no more than I would expect you as a business person not to set your room prices based upon what folks could afford to pay but rather based on the value you provide and the costs you incur. I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
Cheers,
Eric
.

Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...

Um... don't talk about ethics and then break your own Terms and Agreements.

Maybe I should just not give a toot...

Oh, you should definitely give a toot. And I really like that about you!

I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.

Well, actually, i don't keep my prices low for a particular couple, but I do have to keep them reasonable or have no one come at all.

I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...

How are we not a representative sample? Actually, we're not representative in that we are significantly more internet and marketing savvy... Hmm... so you're going after the less savvy? Naw, couldn't be that...
No, condescending is when you tell an innkeeper, "Your website's no good, let us build one for you."

Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...

LOL! Listen to yourself!

Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...

CONDESCENSION!! [Sorry, I can't talk with you little people anymore, gotta go do real work.]
PROMOTION!! [Here I am, working for you! Yay us!]
CONDESCENSION!! [Here I am, in Vegas with the big guys, where I belong!]
PROMOTION!! [we're the leading B&B directory]
Sorry, couldn't resist...

No hard feelings, OK?
=)
Kk.
.

<Yellowsocks>

Eric Goldreyer wrote:
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
Um... don't talk about ethics and then break your own Terms and Agreements.
<Eric>
One was intentional and one was not and has been fixed...
<Yellowsocks>

Eric wrote:
I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
Well, actually, i don't keep my prices low for a particular couple, but I do have to keep them reasonable or have no one come at all.

<Eric>
Agreed. The point was that your pricing is based mor eon your costs and the value, than one's ability to pay, to the degree that you have a business that will sustain that.
<Yellowsocks>

Eric wrote:
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
How are we not a representative sample? Actually, we're not representative in that we are significantly more internet and marketing savvy... Hmm... so you're going after the less savvy? Naw, couldn't be that...
<Eric>
Well... just by the definaition. If you guys as a group don't match the industry averages, then you are not a representative sample of the industry. If your ADR as a group is higher or lower, if your RevPar is higher or lower. If your occupancy is higher or lower.. Maybe you actually are but I meant it only as one would expect...
<Yellowsocks>
No, condescending is when you tell an innkeeper, "Your website's no good, let us build one for you."
<Eric>
Well... I guess the question is is it true or not? I really have not looked at your website. But some people would just call that honesty if it really does need work... If your website really does need work, I hope someone would tell you because I can assure you it is costing you thousands of dollars a year in lost business if that is the case so I'd be thankful someone let you know..
<Yellowsocks>
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
LOL! Listen to yourself!
<Eric>
I did. I don't find it funny at all. I find it genuine.
<Yellowsocks>
Eric wrote:
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
CONDESCENSION!! [Sorry, I can't talk with you little people anymore, gotta go do real work.]
PROMOTION!! [Here I am, working for you! Yay us!]
CONDESCENSION!! [Here I am, in Vegas with the big guys, where I belong!]
PROMOTION!! [we're the leading B&B directory]
<Eric> This reminds me of the saying that "Perception is reality". It seems clear that regardless of what we say, you guys are hearing whatever you want to hear. If the fact that my entire exec team has spent the better part of the last few days on this board while out on vacation, traveling for buisness, or on a religious holiday makes you think that we feel you are "little people" we clearly are wasting our time here.
Cheers,
Eric
.

It seems clear that regardless of what we say, you guys are hearing whatever you want to hear. If the fact that my entire exec team has spent the better part of the last few days on this board while out on vacation, traveling for buisness, or on a religious holiday makes you think that we feel you are "little people" we clearly are wasting our time here.
Actually what it says to me is that you DO care what this small group of innkeepers is saying because you know that what we say DOES matter to a lot of other innkeepers. The views of this group were respected on the previous Forum and when we moved, many of the others moved. In a very short time, the numbers on this Forum have become impressive. THAT is why you and your staff have been monitoring several theads.
If you take nothing else from these discussions, please take this - Give the Bronze level a link to our web sites and a lot of the very small inns - yes, at 3 rooms in Podunk, I am small but I play big when I can - WILL list with you. At $349 I can no longer - and will no longer - play, but with a link to my web site, would, even after the insults (my perception) because it would be a business decision to list as Bronze. You will make more with the volume and gain more with the numbers than you will being "hard-nose" and raising rates right when eveything is most iffy in OUR economic world.

 

[Copperhead]

Eric, as I stated in my post, what that other directory did was not ethical - to that point we agree. As for the other issue of my post, I clearly stated it was not comparing apples to apples, I was just making a point (as I see it) that there are times when I feel that your directory does things that are not quite ethical as well. I know we disagree here. Additionally my point regarding the hotels.com issue was to state that we did not hear Lanier whinning about you sweeping the contact away from her, period. She was very professional in letting those in the program know the program was ending.
Regarding the Hotels.com issue, I would like to add some of those additional facts you felt compelled to leave out when you wanted to present the facts - the 30% commission. This is at least 10% more than when the other directory had the agreement. From what I am understanding from your site (correct me if I am wrong - I know you will), a member is not required to use your guest management system to be signed up for this so why should that have been an issue?
For the other directory, as far as the members knew having this was a bonus for being a member. They may have gotten a kick back ( I don't know) but to the members there was no additional cost and the 20% was (is) right around industry standard regarding commissions for online bookings (based on my research). The company I use to be on the GDS charges between 15% and 18%, so that puts your program a good 10% more than others. Also based on the many other nickel and diming you are doing on your site, I am quite sure you are making a good bit of commission off this program. (Intergrating the EFT payment was a nice addition I might say but it personally would not have been a deal maker for me.)
About the WHINNING - give me a break. This reminds me of when my daughter was young. My DH would tell her to stop crying and her reply in a whinning little voice "Daddy, I'm not crying I'm whinning." There are many ways to get your point across that would not be viewed as whinning, give it some thought before you post. Sorry, I just call it as I see it!
To be very frank with you, your site is very nice and you DO a good job in promoting the industry. I would not have joined if I felt differently. - Yes I am a member. I will see at the end of the 12 month membership if all this hype you give here produces enough business for me to justify the cost with the 30% increase. At this time I do not use any of your other promotions that cost me money (i.e. GC, online rez., etc) for I feel my membership cost should reflect bookings for what I am getting from my listing. The additional services (programs) you offer are at an additional cost, with the value of those services being reflected by the cost of each.
And yes, your comment in another post about your membership cost affecting the 'smaller' B&B's is a good observation. One that has been made by several of the posters here (and previous site) for several years (even before the last 30% increase). Finally you are addressing it, at least by providing the monthly payments. I know I have stated in many posts about your 'nickel and diming' but seriously maybe you should look into a membership level between the bronze and silver or have a tack on (be fair) at the bronze level to add a website link so the 'smaller' B&B's (to which there are many more than we all know) can possibly justify listing on your site and help to put them in the same playing field.

 

[Morticia]

Thanks for the welcome, Swirt!
I would still like to hear an answer to my question, and it seems the answer could have come from Sandy or Eric and not just John. The question is, that since you all feel so strongly that the other site stole your hard work and that you have been wronged, have you actually contacted and talked to anyone at that site? It was put before the public in this forum, but confronting them first, privately, seems like the right way to handle an issue. Cuz two wrongs don't make it right!
The other thing I hear is, Eric, you sure seem to take a personal affront to the negative comments, and your assumptions about why it is affecting those of us who show an attitude contrary to yours is completely condescending. And they were true, then it defies your rationale for raising your prices!
You keep going on and on promoting how great you guys are and NO ONE else is as great as you guys. The reality is that you are part of a huge company which allows you to afford much more and quote lots of big statistics to prove it. So you raised your rates and feel justified doing so. Fine. Now just let us decide what is best for us and stop whining that we don't love you after all you have done for us and the industry. It sure sounds like posturing to me and it isn't becoming..

Sorry... I didn't get your name...?
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
I didn't realize there was anything wrong with being so tied into and caring so much about the business that I take it personally...?? It's my company. Seems to be somewhat logical as the face of the company and someone (anyone for that matter) that pours everything they have into something - be passionate about it and take negative feedback personally. I guess I do not see that as a negative quality. But you feel free to see it however you like. I am not lecturing or trying to convert you. I am explaining my POV. Maybe I should just not give a toot...
I see nothing wrong with the logic of raising my prices no more than I would expect you as a business person not to set your room prices based upon what folks could afford to pay but rather based on the value you provide and the costs you incur. I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
Cheers,
Eric
.

Sorry... I didn't get your name...?
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
I didn't realize there was anything wrong with being so tied into and caring so much about the business that I take it personally...?? It's my company. Seems to be somewhat logical as the face of the company and someone (anyone for that matter) that pours everything they have into something - be passionate about it and take negative feedback personally. I guess I do not see that as a negative quality. But you feel free to see it however you like. I am not lecturing or trying to convert you. I am explaining my POV. Maybe I should just not give a toot...
I see nothing wrong with the logic of raising my prices no more than I would expect you as a business person not to set your room prices based upon what folks could afford to pay but rather based on the value you provide and the costs you incur. I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
Cheers,
Eric

Every small business makes decisions on pricing everyday. We, of course, raise out rates. 6%. Now, my fuel bill went up 100% this year. It will be 10% of my income to pay that bill this coming year. Can I raise my rates to cover that? Absolutely not. I offer good value, but certainly not a $150/night difference in the experience from last year to next year. What I will have to do to get the wary traveler in the door who just lost half their portfolio overnight and may think a weekend away an indulgence this winter, is to LOWER my rates as I cannot afford to add more amenities to keep the prices the same, much less raise them in my off season. We are not a 5 star property that pulls its clientele from the rich. We cater to Middle America. The group that is hardest hit in any and all economic downturns.
Like I said in another post, you still bring a 10:1 value for my dollar. Actually it just dropped to 10:1 with the price increase. (So, yes, I can attribute $3490 to guests who say they used your site to find me.) I'll go for the price increase this year. If there's no value to it next year, I'll spend my exceedingly hard-earned buckeroos elsewhere. It remains to be seen if the 30% increase is worth it to me.
It's good that your work on the website you own has brought in innkeepers who need not watch every dime and thus do not complain. Would that I could be so casual with my money as well.
Just a thought...if you just once say, 'I hear you, I understand times are tough, let me look at what we can do,' you would get a lot further with this small, but vocal and connected group, than all the 'This is what we're doing, like it or leave.' That works with employees, not customers.
.

Bree,
Thanks for the input.
You might like to know that based on innkeeper feedback we invested considerable resources to launch monthly billing for membership -specifically to address the economy issue so innkeepers could pay monthly and smooth out their cash flows.
Now a new member can join and most likely pay for their membership as the year progresses from the buisness they get from the site.
Cheers,
Eric.
.

Bree,
Thanks for the input.
You might like to know that based on innkeeper feedback we invested considerable resources to launch monthly billing for membership -specifically to address the economy issue so innkeepers could pay monthly and smooth out their cash flows.
Now a new member can join and most likely pay for their membership as the year progresses from the buisness they get from the site.
Cheers,
Eric.

Sorry Eric. Here are my exact thoughts when I saw the monthly billing: 'They realize the price is too high for the average business, so this is how to make it more palatable to the small inn.' (And, yes, that's how I talk to myself when we're speaking to each other.) It's also nice to know that you do listen to innkeepers. WHICH innkeepers is still up for grabs as the PAII crowd also seems upset by the price hikes. (Altho that was a nice conversion to your GC program.)
As to the comment on another post that we are anonymous...most of us know who the other posters are. We post anonymously on here because we often bring up details about innkeeping that we would prefer our guests to not be offended by should they find this forum. Personally, I had a guest I complained about on the About forum FIND that post and email me, offended.
Edited to remove name as I want to go back to being quasi-anonymous, and figured everyone who wanted to read this had done so by now.

 

[YellowSocks]

Thanks for the welcome, Swirt!
I would still like to hear an answer to my question, and it seems the answer could have come from Sandy or Eric and not just John. The question is, that since you all feel so strongly that the other site stole your hard work and that you have been wronged, have you actually contacted and talked to anyone at that site? It was put before the public in this forum, but confronting them first, privately, seems like the right way to handle an issue. Cuz two wrongs don't make it right!
The other thing I hear is, Eric, you sure seem to take a personal affront to the negative comments, and your assumptions about why it is affecting those of us who show an attitude contrary to yours is completely condescending. And they were true, then it defies your rationale for raising your prices!
You keep going on and on promoting how great you guys are and NO ONE else is as great as you guys. The reality is that you are part of a huge company which allows you to afford much more and quote lots of big statistics to prove it. So you raised your rates and feel justified doing so. Fine. Now just let us decide what is best for us and stop whining that we don't love you after all you have done for us and the industry. It sure sounds like posturing to me and it isn't becoming..

Sorry... I didn't get your name...?
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
I didn't realize there was anything wrong with being so tied into and caring so much about the business that I take it personally...?? It's my company. Seems to be somewhat logical as the face of the company and someone (anyone for that matter) that pours everything they have into something - be passionate about it and take negative feedback personally. I guess I do not see that as a negative quality. But you feel free to see it however you like. I am not lecturing or trying to convert you. I am explaining my POV. Maybe I should just not give a toot...
I see nothing wrong with the logic of raising my prices no more than I would expect you as a business person not to set your room prices based upon what folks could afford to pay but rather based on the value you provide and the costs you incur. I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
Cheers,
Eric
.

Wow, you know, it was hard enough to swallow the breaking of your terms and agreements and the idea of forking out even more money to you before all of your posts.... After seeing where this has gone with all of your replies, particularly the condescention, wow, you've said a lot here in the course of this discussion, and it's reflected a lot of light on you and your business.
Remember, we too, refer other B&B's and aspirings to you.
I think I seriously need to reconsider whether I want to do business with B&B.com at all. "You ain't all that!"
And another thing, I think we are a great representation of your average innkeeper. Perhaps we should do a poll on how many of us came here via the message boards on bandb.com. I did.
.

I have to say I think it is a bit odd that folks can post anonymously here. It doesn't seem right to be able to say whatever you want and not even let folks know who you are. It seems folkks would be a little more cordial and professional if everyone had th ebenefit of knowing who they were... We are not hiding... but whatever...
The lack of a seven day notice was my fault as I posted on another reply already and we have changed the new rates to not go into effect until Friday.
Eric
PS. Where was i condscending?
.

I have to say I think it is a bit odd that folks can post anonymously here. It doesn't seem right to be able to say whatever you want and not even let folks know who you are. It seems folkks would be a little more cordial and professional if everyone had th ebenefit of knowing who they were... We are not hiding... but whatever...

We all know who each other are.
When a new person comes on anonymously, it's a big mystery puzzle to solve, which we eventually do. A person who is not anonymous is immediately Googled, and their website checked out. The anonymous ones take longer, but we know who they are, too. (It's not that big of a group of regulars.)
But they have nothing to fear from us. If someone chooses to post anonymously we respect that anonymity and try to preserve it. It allows innkeepers to vent about their more difficult guests (PITAs), which is, after all, a major purpose of this forum.
There are people on here from all over the US, Canada, Mexico, and we have a few occasional posters from various countries overseas. The smallest regular posters have 1-2 rooms (well, I suppose the truly smallest are the aspirings who don't have any rooms yet!). The largest I know of has 8 rooms (unless there's a larger one here I'm forgetting about).
I don't know about "the industry" averages. I know that as I look around me, I see only two inns in my area with more than 4 rooms (one is more resort than inn), but there are quite a few with 2-3 rooms. They are not members of PAII, or listed on B&B.com, so I don't know if maybe they don't get included in "the industry" when the statisticians do their averaging. But they are out there, in droves. They're out there with poor or nonexistent websites, and with no online reservations, but they're out there. We're traveling at Thanksgiving... only two B&B's in the town we're visiting, neither take credit cards. I feel as though these B&B's are invisible to you guys. It's a shame, because there are literally thousands of them, and no one advocating for them....
=)
Kk.

 

[swirt]

Thanks for the welcome, Swirt!
I would still like to hear an answer to my question, and it seems the answer could have come from Sandy or Eric and not just John. The question is, that since you all feel so strongly that the other site stole your hard work and that you have been wronged, have you actually contacted and talked to anyone at that site? It was put before the public in this forum, but confronting them first, privately, seems like the right way to handle an issue. Cuz two wrongs don't make it right!
The other thing I hear is, Eric, you sure seem to take a personal affront to the negative comments, and your assumptions about why it is affecting those of us who show an attitude contrary to yours is completely condescending. And they were true, then it defies your rationale for raising your prices!
You keep going on and on promoting how great you guys are and NO ONE else is as great as you guys. The reality is that you are part of a huge company which allows you to afford much more and quote lots of big statistics to prove it. So you raised your rates and feel justified doing so. Fine. Now just let us decide what is best for us and stop whining that we don't love you after all you have done for us and the industry. It sure sounds like posturing to me and it isn't becoming..

Sorry... I didn't get your name...?
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
I didn't realize there was anything wrong with being so tied into and caring so much about the business that I take it personally...?? It's my company. Seems to be somewhat logical as the face of the company and someone (anyone for that matter) that pours everything they have into something - be passionate about it and take negative feedback personally. I guess I do not see that as a negative quality. But you feel free to see it however you like. I am not lecturing or trying to convert you. I am explaining my POV. Maybe I should just not give a toot...
I see nothing wrong with the logic of raising my prices no more than I would expect you as a business person not to set your room prices based upon what folks could afford to pay but rather based on the value you provide and the costs you incur. I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
Cheers,
Eric
.

Wow, you know, it was hard enough to swallow the breaking of your terms and agreements and the idea of forking out even more money to you before all of your posts.... After seeing where this has gone with all of your replies, particularly the condescention, wow, you've said a lot here in the course of this discussion, and it's reflected a lot of light on you and your business.
Remember, we too, refer other B&B's and aspirings to you.
I think I seriously need to reconsider whether I want to do business with B&B.com at all. "You ain't all that!"
And another thing, I think we are a great representation of your average innkeeper. Perhaps we should do a poll on how many of us came here via the message boards on bandb.com. I did.
.

I have to say I think it is a bit odd that folks can post anonymously here. It doesn't seem right to be able to say whatever you want and not even let folks know who you are. It seems folkks would be a little more cordial and professional if everyone had th ebenefit of knowing who they were... We are not hiding... but whatever...
The lack of a seven day notice was my fault as I posted on another reply already and we have changed the new rates to not go into effect until Friday.
Eric
PS. Where was i condscending?
.

I have to say I think it is a bit odd that folks can post anonymously here. It doesn't seem right to be able to say whatever you want and not even let folks know who you are.

That comment doesn't carry a lot of weight when your own forum also allows anonymous posts.

 

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

Posting anon was to be able to post funny or amusing guest stories. Which we like to do. We actually enjoy our guests and our businesses.
It was never meant to be armour against a bed and breakfast directory, which it now has become. Good luck pulling anyone out of their protective shell now!
Word today that yet another directory was lurking here. That makes it 3 or 4 (that I know of) since this conversation started.

 

[swirt]

This "limited number of innkeepers" should be looked upon as a poll - you know, those things that get taken to see which way the wind is blowing today. Only a limited number of people are contacted and that is exterpolated (whatever the spelling) to replfect what is thought to be true today.
We may be a limited number on this Forum but we represent all areas of the United States, several areas of Canada, and have opinions from Mexico.
And I thoroughly resent that comment alluding to the lunar cycle - I do not believe for one minute that it referred to the phases of the moon. Tap dance all you want on that comment but you will be digging a deeper hole in the manure pile with me on that one. It was totally uncalled for..

Good point GillumHouse. My assumption (probably incorrectly because as I stated ealier, we all know what happens when one "assumes") based upon what I have seen posted and by whom (it's not always easy to tell who's who here which is a little weird and also makes it hard to tell property size/location, etc.) was that the group tended to have a smaller than average property size - meaning that if the average property in the US is 8 rooms, I was assuming maybe you guys were more like the 3-5 rooms (on average). I still don't actually know if that is correct or not, but i guess it is not too important. The point i was trying to make was that I can see a situation where unfortunately our pricing effects the smaller properties more than the larger ones.
I can assure you that you completly misinterpreted my "lunar cycle" comment. I was a trying to say in a light-hearted way - What is is the negativity based on. Is it the message, or something completely out of my control (like a "lunar cycle"). No need to overreact. I was simply trying to lighten up the discussions as they seem to be somewhat heavy. I'll stop doing that because someone actually answered my joke question about what an onomatpiea is... ;^)
I followed up on the timing of the notice we sent to innkeepers. It was scheduled to drop on Wednesday and for whatever reason did not go out until Friday. That is totally my fault for not being aware of that and I tale the blame. Due to this fact, we will not be implementing the new rate structure until this Friday, October 3rd. My apologies!
I'll try and dig through a few more of these real quick...
Thanks,
Eric
.

...was that the group tended to have a smaller than average property size - meaning that if the average property in the US is 8 rooms, I was assuming maybe you guys were more like the 3-5 rooms (on average).

Just checking that you do understand the way an average (mean) works when dealing with a sample that never goes to zero and rarely goes to one. If you have an average of 8 it means that MORE than half of the sample is below average because the higher room counts for larger inns make it a non-normal distribution. The same is true for ADR. An ADR of $170 indicates that MORE than half are below that ADR. So assuming that the members here are below average in room count or ADR, is actually an indication that they are more the norm than the exception.
In terms of my area, the ADR may be close but the room numbers are way off. In NY a B&B is anything with 5 or fewer rooms and here in the Finger Lakes there are over 100 B&B's (even if they call themselves an inn) and only 5 or 6 true inns (having more than 5 rooms)

 

[YellowSocks]

Thanks for the welcome, Swirt!
I would still like to hear an answer to my question, and it seems the answer could have come from Sandy or Eric and not just John. The question is, that since you all feel so strongly that the other site stole your hard work and that you have been wronged, have you actually contacted and talked to anyone at that site? It was put before the public in this forum, but confronting them first, privately, seems like the right way to handle an issue. Cuz two wrongs don't make it right!
The other thing I hear is, Eric, you sure seem to take a personal affront to the negative comments, and your assumptions about why it is affecting those of us who show an attitude contrary to yours is completely condescending. And they were true, then it defies your rationale for raising your prices!
You keep going on and on promoting how great you guys are and NO ONE else is as great as you guys. The reality is that you are part of a huge company which allows you to afford much more and quote lots of big statistics to prove it. So you raised your rates and feel justified doing so. Fine. Now just let us decide what is best for us and stop whining that we don't love you after all you have done for us and the industry. It sure sounds like posturing to me and it isn't becoming..

Sorry... I didn't get your name...?
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
I didn't realize there was anything wrong with being so tied into and caring so much about the business that I take it personally...?? It's my company. Seems to be somewhat logical as the face of the company and someone (anyone for that matter) that pours everything they have into something - be passionate about it and take negative feedback personally. I guess I do not see that as a negative quality. But you feel free to see it however you like. I am not lecturing or trying to convert you. I am explaining my POV. Maybe I should just not give a toot...
I see nothing wrong with the logic of raising my prices no more than I would expect you as a business person not to set your room prices based upon what folks could afford to pay but rather based on the value you provide and the costs you incur. I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
Cheers,
Eric
.

Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...

Um... don't talk about ethics and then break your own Terms and Agreements.

Maybe I should just not give a toot...

Oh, you should definitely give a toot. And I really like that about you!

I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.

Well, actually, i don't keep my prices low for a particular couple, but I do have to keep them reasonable or have no one come at all.

I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...

How are we not a representative sample? Actually, we're not representative in that we are significantly more internet and marketing savvy... Hmm... so you're going after the less savvy? Naw, couldn't be that...
No, condescending is when you tell an innkeeper, "Your website's no good, let us build one for you."

Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...

LOL! Listen to yourself!

Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...

CONDESCENSION!! [Sorry, I can't talk with you little people anymore, gotta go do real work.]
PROMOTION!! [Here I am, working for you! Yay us!]
CONDESCENSION!! [Here I am, in Vegas with the big guys, where I belong!]
PROMOTION!! [we're the leading B&B directory]
Sorry, couldn't resist...

No hard feelings, OK?
=)
Kk.
.

<Yellowsocks>

Eric Goldreyer wrote:
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
Um... don't talk about ethics and then break your own Terms and Agreements.
<Eric>
One was intentional and one was not and has been fixed...
<Yellowsocks>

Eric wrote:
I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
Well, actually, i don't keep my prices low for a particular couple, but I do have to keep them reasonable or have no one come at all.

<Eric>
Agreed. The point was that your pricing is based mor eon your costs and the value, than one's ability to pay, to the degree that you have a business that will sustain that.
<Yellowsocks>

Eric wrote:
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
How are we not a representative sample? Actually, we're not representative in that we are significantly more internet and marketing savvy... Hmm... so you're going after the less savvy? Naw, couldn't be that...
<Eric>
Well... just by the definaition. If you guys as a group don't match the industry averages, then you are not a representative sample of the industry. If your ADR as a group is higher or lower, if your RevPar is higher or lower. If your occupancy is higher or lower.. Maybe you actually are but I meant it only as one would expect...
<Yellowsocks>
No, condescending is when you tell an innkeeper, "Your website's no good, let us build one for you."
<Eric>
Well... I guess the question is is it true or not? I really have not looked at your website. But some people would just call that honesty if it really does need work... If your website really does need work, I hope someone would tell you because I can assure you it is costing you thousands of dollars a year in lost business if that is the case so I'd be thankful someone let you know..
<Yellowsocks>
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
LOL! Listen to yourself!
<Eric>
I did. I don't find it funny at all. I find it genuine.
<Yellowsocks>
Eric wrote:
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
CONDESCENSION!! [Sorry, I can't talk with you little people anymore, gotta go do real work.]
PROMOTION!! [Here I am, working for you! Yay us!]
CONDESCENSION!! [Here I am, in Vegas with the big guys, where I belong!]
PROMOTION!! [we're the leading B&B directory]
<Eric> This reminds me of the saying that "Perception is reality". It seems clear that regardless of what we say, you guys are hearing whatever you want to hear. If the fact that my entire exec team has spent the better part of the last few days on this board while out on vacation, traveling for buisness, or on a religious holiday makes you think that we feel you are "little people" we clearly are wasting our time here.
Cheers,
Eric
.

I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.

Well, actually, i don't keep my prices low for a particular couple, but I do have to keep them reasonable or have no one come at all.

Agreed. The point was that your pricing is based more on your costs and the value, than one's ability to pay, to the degree that you have a business that will sustain that.

No, I’m saying that my pricing is absolutely based on what people will pay. The value could be priceless, but I can only charge what the market will bear. Which I do. (And which I believe you also do.)
I charge as much as I can and still get reservations. I could charge less and get more reservations, but I only have four rooms. It may seem backwards, but having set my rates I then have a measure for my expenses… they cannot be higher than a certain amount, because I cannot raise my rates. If my fixed expenses (gas, electricity) go up, then I have to find ways to trim my variable expenses (food, other amenities).
It comes across as though you are saying “these are our expenses, therefore we must charge this amount.” But expenses and rates are far more intricately related than that, especially for a business like yours. What I mean by that is that I only have four rooms. I need to set a price that will bring reservations in, but only as many reservations as it takes to fill four rooms fairly regularly. You, in comparison, have a huge number of potential customers, and the ability to take all that come. Now, you may decide you don’t want to have 14,000 listings and raise your rates to keep the numbers down, but obviously that is not the case as you are a directory and the more listings you have the bigger your bragging rights. So I suppose your price simply goes as high as it can until listings taper off. Even though you have all these massive expenses, the supply is fairly limitless… you control the demand.

I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...

How are we not a representative sample? Actually, we're not representative in that we are significantly more internet and marketing savvy... Hmm... so you're going after the less savvy? Naw, couldn't be that...

Well... just by the definaition. If you guys as a group don't match the industry averages, then you are not a representative sample of the industry. If your ADR as a group is higher or lower, if your RevPar is higher or lower. If your occupancy is higher or lower.. Maybe you actually are but I meant it only as one would expect...

OK… to proceed further we need to define some terms. What, exactly, is the industry average? And what is the source of the industry average? I’d really like to know. Then we can figure out what the average is of the regular posters and see if we’re a representative sample or not. I think the fact that regular posters here range from 1-8 rooms gives us quite the variety. We often marvel at the difference in operating procedures between those with 2-4 rooms and those with 5-8 rooms.
Since you haven’t clicked my sig, I’ll tell you that I have four rooms, in a smallish town in north central Ohio. It is at least 30 minutes drive from me before you get to a B&B with more than four rooms. There are four B&B’s in my town, and I’m the largest. My prices are in the middle (I don’t want to be the cheapest, and the inn south of me is a lot prettier than I am) and are 95/110/110/120. In July I’m a steal and in January I can either lower my rates or be content with a handful of reservations.
Another factor you seem to overlook… us “vocal regulars” are not just a handful of opinionated innkeepers. We are connected to other inns around us. I know all the other innkeepers in my town… we get together for dinner. I network as I’m able with other B&B’s around my state. When I travel I stay in still other B&B’s. Some of us are members of our state associations. It happens that I’m not, but a few of the other regulars here are extremely active in their state association. When I make comments I do not speak only for myself (why should you care what I think?) but for what I am hearing from my innkeeper friends as well.

No, condescending is when you tell an innkeeper, "Your website's no good, let us build one for you."

Well... I guess the question is is it true or not? I really have not looked at your website. But some people would just call that honesty if it really does need work... If your website really does need work, I hope someone would tell you because I can assure you it is costing you thousands of dollars a year in lost business if that is the case so I'd be thankful someone let you know..

You didn’t tell me that, your firm emailed that to another innkeeper, whose website was professionally designed, and which is working quite well for her. In fact, it’s a pretty impressive website considering her size and location. I know a larger inn that uses bbonline for their website because they feel they can’t afford to host their own. It’s quite impressive that she’s spent as much as she has to create a good website, but then she gets an email from you guys, trolling for business, which she took as an insult.
Finally, I am disappointed that you did not have a response to my post #15315: https://www.innspiring.com/node/1449#comment-15315 particularly the part about how you front the money on the GC’s. I know you're busy and out of town, but I hope you'll find time to address it eventually.
=)
Kk.

 

[muirford]

Thanks for the welcome, Swirt!
I would still like to hear an answer to my question, and it seems the answer could have come from Sandy or Eric and not just John. The question is, that since you all feel so strongly that the other site stole your hard work and that you have been wronged, have you actually contacted and talked to anyone at that site? It was put before the public in this forum, but confronting them first, privately, seems like the right way to handle an issue. Cuz two wrongs don't make it right!
The other thing I hear is, Eric, you sure seem to take a personal affront to the negative comments, and your assumptions about why it is affecting those of us who show an attitude contrary to yours is completely condescending. And they were true, then it defies your rationale for raising your prices!
You keep going on and on promoting how great you guys are and NO ONE else is as great as you guys. The reality is that you are part of a huge company which allows you to afford much more and quote lots of big statistics to prove it. So you raised your rates and feel justified doing so. Fine. Now just let us decide what is best for us and stop whining that we don't love you after all you have done for us and the industry. It sure sounds like posturing to me and it isn't becoming..

Sorry... I didn't get your name...?
Because it gets annoying and we think innkeepers should see the type of ethics some of the other folks in the industry have. I guess this tells you a little about us and a little about them...
I didn't realize there was anything wrong with being so tied into and caring so much about the business that I take it personally...?? It's my company. Seems to be somewhat logical as the face of the company and someone (anyone for that matter) that pours everything they have into something - be passionate about it and take negative feedback personally. I guess I do not see that as a negative quality. But you feel free to see it however you like. I am not lecturing or trying to convert you. I am explaining my POV. Maybe I should just not give a toot...
I see nothing wrong with the logic of raising my prices no more than I would expect you as a business person not to set your room prices based upon what folks could afford to pay but rather based on the value you provide and the costs you incur. I don't see many innkeepers, based on my logic, keeping their prices low for the couple that wouuld love to travel and stay at a B&B but because of their jobs, cannot afford this particular property.
I fail to see how saying that maybe our policies are having an adverse effect on you guys more specifically as a group (since you do not appear to be a good representative sample of the greater innkeeper population), is condenscending. It certainly was not meant to be. But I will not try to figure out the logic...
Let's be clear, I am not "promoting". I am spending valuable time on this board attempting to share with you uwhy we feel the way we do. My best educated way in understanding how to do that is to share data with you that "should" explain our position and why we feel the way we do. It doesn't have a thing to do with "promoting". I am sharing/stating facts of data. i do not understand why you seem to always turn that into "promoting" or "whining"...? Seriously. I don't. Honestly I have not seen any of our posts as "whiny". You seem to think if we have a differing point of view or share with you something that we feel helps explain our position, we are "whining"... I just havwe to tell you, it sounds like you are projecting...
Sorry. I have to go. I have spend the day here in Vegas with all of my other leading B&B directory buddies finding more ways to get exposure for our members...
Cheers,
Eric
.

Wow, you know, it was hard enough to swallow the breaking of your terms and agreements and the idea of forking out even more money to you before all of your posts.... After seeing where this has gone with all of your replies, particularly the condescention, wow, you've said a lot here in the course of this discussion, and it's reflected a lot of light on you and your business.
Remember, we too, refer other B&B's and aspirings to you.
I think I seriously need to reconsider whether I want to do business with B&B.com at all. "You ain't all that!"
And another thing, I think we are a great representation of your average innkeeper. Perhaps we should do a poll on how many of us came here via the message boards on bandb.com. I did.
.

I have to say I think it is a bit odd that folks can post anonymously here. It doesn't seem right to be able to say whatever you want and not even let folks know who you are. It seems folkks would be a little more cordial and professional if everyone had th ebenefit of knowing who they were... We are not hiding... but whatever...
The lack of a seven day notice was my fault as I posted on another reply already and we have changed the new rates to not go into effect until Friday.
Eric
PS. Where was i condscending?
.

I have to say I think it is a bit odd that folks can post anonymously here. It doesn't seem right to be able to say whatever you want and not even let folks know who you are.

That comment doesn't carry a lot of weight when your own forum also allows anonymous posts.

.

Not to mention anonymous reviews!

 

[JBanczak]

Eric, as I stated in my post, what that other directory did was not ethical - to that point we agree. As for the other issue of my post, I clearly stated it was not comparing apples to apples, I was just making a point (as I see it) that there are times when I feel that your directory does things that are not quite ethical as well. I know we disagree here. Additionally my point regarding the hotels.com issue was to state that we did not hear Lanier whinning about you sweeping the contact away from her, period. She was very professional in letting those in the program know the program was ending.
Regarding the Hotels.com issue, I would like to add some of those additional facts you felt compelled to leave out when you wanted to present the facts - the 30% commission. This is at least 10% more than when the other directory had the agreement. From what I am understanding from your site (correct me if I am wrong - I know you will), a member is not required to use your guest management system to be signed up for this so why should that have been an issue?
For the other directory, as far as the members knew having this was a bonus for being a member. They may have gotten a kick back ( I don't know) but to the members there was no additional cost and the 20% was (is) right around industry standard regarding commissions for online bookings (based on my research). The company I use to be on the GDS charges between 15% and 18%, so that puts your program a good 10% more than others. Also based on the many other nickel and diming you are doing on your site, I am quite sure you are making a good bit of commission off this program. (Intergrating the EFT payment was a nice addition I might say but it personally would not have been a deal maker for me.)
About the WHINNING - give me a break. This reminds me of when my daughter was young. My DH would tell her to stop crying and her reply in a whinning little voice "Daddy, I'm not crying I'm whinning." There are many ways to get your point across that would not be viewed as whinning, give it some thought before you post. Sorry, I just call it as I see it!
To be very frank with you, your site is very nice and you DO a good job in promoting the industry. I would not have joined if I felt differently. - Yes I am a member. I will see at the end of the 12 month membership if all this hype you give here produces enough business for me to justify the cost with the 30% increase. At this time I do not use any of your other promotions that cost me money (i.e. GC, online rez., etc) for I feel my membership cost should reflect bookings for what I am getting from my listing. The additional services (programs) you offer are at an additional cost, with the value of those services being reflected by the cost of each.
And yes, your comment in another post about your membership cost affecting the 'smaller' B&B's is a good observation. One that has been made by several of the posters here (and previous site) for several years (even before the last 30% increase). Finally you are addressing it, at least by providing the monthly payments. I know I have stated in many posts about your 'nickel and diming' but seriously maybe you should look into a membership level between the bronze and silver or have a tack on (be fair) at the bronze level to add a website link so the 'smaller' B&B's (to which there are many more than we all know) can possibly justify listing on your site and help to put them in the same playing field..

To clarify here, the Lanier-Hotels.com deal was 30%. If there were inns at 20%, then I'm guessing that would be an exception. We have a copy of the Lanier contract, and we also made Expedia/hotels.com warrant to us that we would be giving innkeepers exactly the same pricing as was done through Lanier.
I'd be happy to explain the differences in the extranets used and payment processed used in the days Lanier resold the product vs. now if you would like me to, but I'm trying to be conscious of promoting our product, so if you'd rather not have me spell them out, not a problem. I'm also happy to talk about GDS economics - we have a GDS link here and have done a lot of presenting on it - usually more why inn's don't need one... which I know sounds strange coming from a GDS provider...

 

[Penelope]

Posting anon was to be able to post funny or amusing guest stories. Which we like to do. We actually enjoy our guests and our businesses.
It was never meant to be armour against a bed and breakfast directory, which it now has become. Good luck pulling anyone out of their protective shell now!
Word today that yet another directory was lurking here. That makes it 3 or 4 (that I know of) since this conversation started..

Word today that yet another directory was lurking here. That makes it 3 or 4 (that I know of) since this conversation started.

Interesting to see how much power the "little guys"

really have. Think the directories are nervous?
I've been RIVETED to my computer since this started. I have applauded you guys and cheered to my screen, given myself a high five, pumped my fist, all of that when you've "scored a point". You all really are something that I "aspire" to be: honest, forthright, display integrity, no holds barred, velvet fisted people.
This couple of threads are worth the price of admission and far exceed what I would learn at some boring, old, Aspiring Innkeeper Seminar!!

 

[JBanczak]

Posting anon was to be able to post funny or amusing guest stories. Which we like to do. We actually enjoy our guests and our businesses.
It was never meant to be armour against a bed and breakfast directory, which it now has become. Good luck pulling anyone out of their protective shell now!
Word today that yet another directory was lurking here. That makes it 3 or 4 (that I know of) since this conversation started..

How do regular posters feel about other directories lurking/posting anonymously? Might be a good topic for a new thread, or even a poll. The reason we do not do this is that I think it would seem odd if you didn't know I was from a specific company, yet I was posting in defense of my company. Isn't there some type of forum etiquette that says if you are going to post in discussions regarding your own business or competitors businesses, that you must identify you are indeed a stakeholder in the conversation so that folks understand this?

 

[swirt]

Posting anon was to be able to post funny or amusing guest stories. Which we like to do. We actually enjoy our guests and our businesses.
It was never meant to be armour against a bed and breakfast directory, which it now has become. Good luck pulling anyone out of their protective shell now!
Word today that yet another directory was lurking here. That makes it 3 or 4 (that I know of) since this conversation started..

How do regular posters feel about other directories lurking/posting anonymously? Might be a good topic for a new thread, or even a poll. The reason we do not do this is that I think it would seem odd if you didn't know I was from a specific company, yet I was posting in defense of my company. Isn't there some type of forum etiquette that says if you are going to post in discussions regarding your own business or competitors businesses, that you must identify you are indeed a stakeholder in the conversation so that folks understand this?
.

Lurking and posting anonymously are no problem. It is when the business posts anonymously either promoting themselves or demoting competitors that they would get called on it and exposed.
I may not always be able to detect it, but I can assure you that to date (3pm October 2nd) anyone that has posted anonymously in support or opposition to your product discussions has not been a competitor of yours.
If I think a person is abusing their anonymity, as described in the terms of use, I will expose the abuser and not allow it to continue. You have my word on that.

 

[muirford]

Posting anon was to be able to post funny or amusing guest stories. Which we like to do. We actually enjoy our guests and our businesses.
It was never meant to be armour against a bed and breakfast directory, which it now has become. Good luck pulling anyone out of their protective shell now!
Word today that yet another directory was lurking here. That makes it 3 or 4 (that I know of) since this conversation started..

How do regular posters feel about other directories lurking/posting anonymously? Might be a good topic for a new thread, or even a poll. The reason we do not do this is that I think it would seem odd if you didn't know I was from a specific company, yet I was posting in defense of my company. Isn't there some type of forum etiquette that says if you are going to post in discussions regarding your own business or competitors businesses, that you must identify you are indeed a stakeholder in the conversation so that folks understand this?
.

Any poster on this board who either promotes or defends any company generally gets called on to defend their position. We do our research independently and draw our own conclusions which we almost always post. There have been some posters with new directories or B&B services who have got the pros and the cons of their offerings pointed out very clearly and precisely here.
This forum is run by innkeepers and for innkeepers and aspirings. Innkeepers have reasons to have their identities masked on this kind of forum. You don't have to say who you are - you will get the same response if you are John Doe Innkeeper promoting the BedandBreakfast.com directory, trust me.

 

[gillumhouse]

Posting anon was to be able to post funny or amusing guest stories. Which we like to do. We actually enjoy our guests and our businesses.
It was never meant to be armour against a bed and breakfast directory, which it now has become. Good luck pulling anyone out of their protective shell now!
Word today that yet another directory was lurking here. That makes it 3 or 4 (that I know of) since this conversation started..

How do regular posters feel about other directories lurking/posting anonymously? Might be a good topic for a new thread, or even a poll. The reason we do not do this is that I think it would seem odd if you didn't know I was from a specific company, yet I was posting in defense of my company. Isn't there some type of forum etiquette that says if you are going to post in discussions regarding your own business or competitors businesses, that you must identify you are indeed a stakeholder in the conversation so that folks understand this?
.

Lurking and saying nothing shows restraint in many cases. However, anyone is permitted to lurk. Anyone who posts anonymously is found out - we are not a stupid lot - altough they will not be exposed as long as they are genuine in what they say. Many detectives here.
Many people have exhibited intelligence until they opened their mouths. I, for one, have no problem with an opinion being expressed by anyone/everyone (as themselves or anon) as long as it is kept civil and factual. Yes, we all (and I mean human beings as we all) get emotional when the right buttons are pushed, just do not get personal nor judgemental to any and all who disagree. I do not believe anyone issued a personal attack on anyone from bandb - just stated a disgruntled issue and why and from that point on attempted to get someone to understand our issue - or even try to understand it.
We have been trying for way too long to get the point across that without a web link - that the rest of the world considers a standard item - your Bronze listing is useless and that is the level that the small inn can afford. We are giving you the answer on a silver platter! One that should have been figured out in your own Board Room - make it in quantity. There is probably more money to be made by adding the web link to Bronze and getting all those small inns that cannot afford the Silver Platter demanded of us. Do you not think a press release that could say we list 14,000 inns would make a much bigger impression than we list 7,000?
This Forum tries to help everyone - even bandb.com........

 

[JBanczak]

Posting anon was to be able to post funny or amusing guest stories. Which we like to do. We actually enjoy our guests and our businesses.
It was never meant to be armour against a bed and breakfast directory, which it now has become. Good luck pulling anyone out of their protective shell now!
Word today that yet another directory was lurking here. That makes it 3 or 4 (that I know of) since this conversation started..

How do regular posters feel about other directories lurking/posting anonymously? Might be a good topic for a new thread, or even a poll. The reason we do not do this is that I think it would seem odd if you didn't know I was from a specific company, yet I was posting in defense of my company. Isn't there some type of forum etiquette that says if you are going to post in discussions regarding your own business or competitors businesses, that you must identify you are indeed a stakeholder in the conversation so that folks understand this?
.

Lurking and saying nothing shows restraint in many cases. However, anyone is permitted to lurk. Anyone who posts anonymously is found out - we are not a stupid lot - altough they will not be exposed as long as they are genuine in what they say. Many detectives here.
Many people have exhibited intelligence until they opened their mouths. I, for one, have no problem with an opinion being expressed by anyone/everyone (as themselves or anon) as long as it is kept civil and factual. Yes, we all (and I mean human beings as we all) get emotional when the right buttons are pushed, just do not get personal nor judgemental to any and all who disagree. I do not believe anyone issued a personal attack on anyone from bandb - just stated a disgruntled issue and why and from that point on attempted to get someone to understand our issue - or even try to understand it.
We have been trying for way too long to get the point across that without a web link - that the rest of the world considers a standard item - your Bronze listing is useless and that is the level that the small inn can afford. We are giving you the answer on a silver platter! One that should have been figured out in your own Board Room - make it in quantity. There is probably more money to be made by adding the web link to Bronze and getting all those small inns that cannot afford the Silver Platter demanded of us. Do you not think a press release that could say we list 14,000 inns would make a much bigger impression than we list 7,000?
This Forum tries to help everyone - even bandb.com........
.

Sounds like we are all on the same page then. I thought I had read that another directory had posted anonymously here, but I think we are up to 100 posts now so losing track. I agree that innkeepers should be able to post anonymously - just wouldn't think that vendors of any kind would.

 

[YellowSocks]

Posting anon was to be able to post funny or amusing guest stories. Which we like to do. We actually enjoy our guests and our businesses.
It was never meant to be armour against a bed and breakfast directory, which it now has become. Good luck pulling anyone out of their protective shell now!
Word today that yet another directory was lurking here. That makes it 3 or 4 (that I know of) since this conversation started..

How do regular posters feel about other directories lurking/posting anonymously? Might be a good topic for a new thread, or even a poll. The reason we do not do this is that I think it would seem odd if you didn't know I was from a specific company, yet I was posting in defense of my company. Isn't there some type of forum etiquette that says if you are going to post in discussions regarding your own business or competitors businesses, that you must identify you are indeed a stakeholder in the conversation so that folks understand this?
.

Lurking and saying nothing shows restraint in many cases. However, anyone is permitted to lurk. Anyone who posts anonymously is found out - we are not a stupid lot - altough they will not be exposed as long as they are genuine in what they say. Many detectives here.
Many people have exhibited intelligence until they opened their mouths. I, for one, have no problem with an opinion being expressed by anyone/everyone (as themselves or anon) as long as it is kept civil and factual. Yes, we all (and I mean human beings as we all) get emotional when the right buttons are pushed, just do not get personal nor judgemental to any and all who disagree. I do not believe anyone issued a personal attack on anyone from bandb - just stated a disgruntled issue and why and from that point on attempted to get someone to understand our issue - or even try to understand it.
We have been trying for way too long to get the point across that without a web link - that the rest of the world considers a standard item - your Bronze listing is useless and that is the level that the small inn can afford. We are giving you the answer on a silver platter! One that should have been figured out in your own Board Room - make it in quantity. There is probably more money to be made by adding the web link to Bronze and getting all those small inns that cannot afford the Silver Platter demanded of us. Do you not think a press release that could say we list 14,000 inns would make a much bigger impression than we list 7,000?
This Forum tries to help everyone - even bandb.com........
.

Sounds like we are all on the same page then. I thought I had read that another directory had posted anonymously here, but I think we are up to 100 posts now so losing track. I agree that innkeepers should be able to post anonymously - just wouldn't think that vendors of any kind would.
.

Sounds like we are all on the same page then. I thought I had read that another directory had posted anonymously here, but I think we are up to 100 posts now so losing track. I agree that innkeepers should be able to post anonymously - just wouldn't think that vendors of any kind would.

As stated by others, anyone can post anonymously, directory or innkeeper or aspiring or spammer. But if you (meaning the general, all-of-the-above you) make a claim we're going to examine it, discuss it, pick it apart, and come to our own conclusion about what is said.
Yes, other directories post, but, as Swirt said, not in response to your comments (so far). They have practiced admirable restraint and earned our respect because of it. I assume that if and when they can no longer restrain themselves they will identify themselves when they post.
As it says in the FAQ's:
What about self promotion?
As long as your self-promotion is appropriate and innkeeper related, it's no problem. If you sell something we innkeepers can use (embroidery, soaps, mugs, website design, etc.) then we want to know about it. If you're a regular, active member of the forum, we particularly want to help promote you. If, on the other hand, you are only here to promote a non-innkeeping product (drugs, porn, spam) expect to be deleted, blocked, and ridiculed in very short order.
FAIR WARNING: You had better be brave if you're not legit (especially for website seo and design services). If you're not legit, we'll tear you to pieces and expose you for the foul fraud you are. Everyone else is welcomed with open arms.
See... it's not just you. You think you have it tough? Go back and read what we did to the scam website designer who meandered on here! Shredded to pieces, trod into the mud, tarred and... well, you get the idea.
=)
Kk.