Trip Advisor Awards? - SCAM or NOT

[muirford]

I totally understand that this is a bogus "award", it's something a business owner would be paying for...but does that make it a "scam"? They don't seem to be misrepresenting what they are selling, or being otherwise misleading. I'm not for or against it either way but I can see there was quite an "against" sentiment for it here, from people whose opinions I trust...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?.

...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?

I don't feel any more against this particular award just because they are using TA as their vehicle - I just am disgusted by any company that would take a $5 product and dress it up as a $300 package, then try to fool some innkeepers who think they are legitimately an arm of TA (or Zagat's, or AAA etc.). Any one of us could create the same logo and stick it on our websites where it means absolutely nothing, and we could do it for free.
ETA: And yes, I think it's a scam. They're selling you nothing, and making you pay something for it.
.

Ah! I'm starting to see why folks would think it's a scam...but others would simply call it good old American capitalism...as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price, and that price is whatever someone is willing to pay for it!
.

A common scam in Manhattan is to walk up to arriving passengers at the train station and offer to secure a cab for them for $5 or $10. The money changes hands and then the new arrival is escorted to the taxi cab waiting line, where everyone goes, with or without the paid escort.
I see little difference between that scam and this one, other than the professional-looking logo and the invocation of a well-known business entity.

 

[swirt]

I totally understand that this is a bogus "award", it's something a business owner would be paying for...but does that make it a "scam"? They don't seem to be misrepresenting what they are selling, or being otherwise misleading. I'm not for or against it either way but I can see there was quite an "against" sentiment for it here, from people whose opinions I trust...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?.

...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?

I don't feel any more against this particular award just because they are using TA as their vehicle - I just am disgusted by any company that would take a $5 product and dress it up as a $300 package, then try to fool some innkeepers who think they are legitimately an arm of TA (or Zagat's, or AAA etc.). Any one of us could create the same logo and stick it on our websites where it means absolutely nothing, and we could do it for free.
ETA: And yes, I think it's a scam. They're selling you nothing, and making you pay something for it.
.

Ah! I'm starting to see why folks would think it's a scam...but others would simply call it good old American capitalism...as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price, and that price is whatever someone is willing to pay for it!
.

as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price
I would argue that most suckers aren't born, they are formed by deceptive offers, mixed in with a dash of greed.
The context of the phone call says it all
I received a phone call from someone yesterday who said that he was calling from the Trip Advisor Award Program. -NOT. It was a call from a someone not affiliated with TripAdvisor in any way.
He said that Trip Advisor was offering new awards that would help promote my business. - NOT. TripAdvisor was offering no such thing.
saying that they were the official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards. - I bet $100 they are not
Not only is the innkeeper being lied to and mislead. If the innkeeper were scammed out of the money and received the award logo and associated crap and then used it on their website, they would be misleading their potential guests. ANd I think most of the members here would suggest that is a really bad idea. If somebody sells you the fony title for a bridge, you wouldn't then use that to promote yourself. "Hi I'm the new owner of the Brooklyn bridge and I'd like you to choose to stay with us."
Using the arguement that it is good ol american capitalism then paves the way for ever single scam to come along.

 

[JBloggs]

Same as AAA four-diamond award if you use their logo on anything you must pay for it. It is nothing new, they want to make money like all the rest. It is not shameless, it is a business trying to make money. Why do so many innkeepers look at everyone else out there as the enemy? TA is not our enemy, and as stated that some manipulate it for their benefit, is true, but it is there to stay and we need to work with TA not against it. Verify it and use it if you want to..

Sorry Joe, I beg to differ. TA may not be our enemy but it certainly isn't our friend either. It has single handedly changed the whole landscape of innkeeping by introducing the rating system and themselves as the middleman, which has been copied by any number of wannabe sites out there. We needed that like we needed a broken arm. It was all a moneymaking scheme on their part. We had Frommer's and other guides before that, but without all the headeaches.
Now, in addition to all the regular innkeeping tasks; we have to deal with people threatening to blackmail us with bad reviews if we don't drop rates or cater to their other whims, competitors who can write false negative reviews we can't do anything about, or just the occasional psycho who can do the same thing.
Just because you've found a way around the system doesn't mean the rest of us have, or would want to.
.

I can see both sides of this. It's true that TA has been accused if some less than savory practices. I want to see a truly independent site established, not one owned by Expedia. But the nature of online reviews is GOOD...it helps stop unsavory business owners from tricking travelers. I agree that it needs to be worked with, not against.
I don't think I understand the comment about Joe having "found a way around the system"? I must have missed something in a previous discussion.
.

This was originally posted under Afternoon Refreshments. You can refer back to it if you like.
Tim_Toad_HLB wrote:
"If some moron posts a bunch of false crap about your BnB I think it is within your power to call out those who have stayed with you for those "rebuttal" reviews."
We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm convinced that any review not driven of a consumer's own volition and desire to share their experience without prompting, coaching or input by the owner is a false review.
Who says all bad or even lukewarm reviews are false crap? There are times when even a great business drops the ball, or doesn't deliver what they are advertising.
It is that exact self-serving attitude and manipulation of the review process that will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective.
You know, kind of like TA's motto.
"I think it makes good sense to do so. Focusing on correcting the bad guests comments should not be, however the goal, but to push the review down further in the list chronologically. I know of a few inns who have "stand by" reviewers, these are people who have indeed stayed there and will write a review at the request of the innkeeper. Nothing false about it, they stayed there and it is a legit review."
That is the epitome of what I'm referring to. TA isn't "ours" to manipulate or manage. We live in an increasingly skeptical and cynical world. The more people feed the alligator the worse it will get. Travelers use sites like TA because most believe what they read is objective and untouched by any influence or pressure coming from the owner of a business.
"The timing is what bothers you?"
No, its the obvious and strategic manipulation of the process combined with the obvious disrespect it reflects for both the consumer and one's colleagues who play by the books. After all, I thought we were all "co-workers" and part of a fraternity loking out for each other.
Why should TA or sites like it even have posting guidelines and rules if the very folks benefiting the most from its existence work hard to get around them?
"So far I have been fortunate to not have a negative review..."
And if you ever do and its full of crap or falsehoods you have the management response function to use in order to correct and refute the information for the benefit of future potential readers.
Yes I have read some managment responses to bad reviews and they make the situation worse than it already is. I reply to all my reviews and they are not coerced, thank you. If I do get a crappy false review by some moron you bet your

I will call up on reviewers who stayed with me and loved it here. Absolutely. I am not going to let some jerk blacken what we work so hard to provide here for our guests. I will not respond tit for tat to any reviewer, I will move on.
.

Hmmm...I guess I just don't see this as "manipulating" the system. To have someone who has stayed at your property write a review is not coercion or telling falsehoods.
I have to flat out disagree with any concern regarding "...will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective". Because the entire TA site is NOT honest, objective or focused on consumers. It is focused on making money for Expedia, period. Caveat emptor, imo, to the users of TA.
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?

CHILL OUT. I did not say I had done this. I did not say I do this, if I need to I would do this. Why are you arguing on a thread that is not the orig thread and cut n pasting from another thread? I do not get your extreme anger at anyone who has a differing view to yours about trip advisor? Is it because of your negative reviews that set you off against anyone who disagrees?

 

[JBloggs]

I totally understand that this is a bogus "award", it's something a business owner would be paying for...but does that make it a "scam"? They don't seem to be misrepresenting what they are selling, or being otherwise misleading. I'm not for or against it either way but I can see there was quite an "against" sentiment for it here, from people whose opinions I trust...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?.

...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?

I don't feel any more against this particular award just because they are using TA as their vehicle - I just am disgusted by any company that would take a $5 product and dress it up as a $300 package, then try to fool some innkeepers who think they are legitimately an arm of TA (or Zagat's, or AAA etc.). Any one of us could create the same logo and stick it on our websites where it means absolutely nothing, and we could do it for free.
ETA: And yes, I think it's a scam. They're selling you nothing, and making you pay something for it.
.

Ah! I'm starting to see why folks would think it's a scam...but others would simply call it good old American capitalism...as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price, and that price is whatever someone is willing to pay for it!
.

as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price
I would argue that most suckers aren't born, they are formed by deceptive offers, mixed in with a dash of greed.
The context of the phone call says it all
I received a phone call from someone yesterday who said that he was calling from the Trip Advisor Award Program. -NOT. It was a call from a someone not affiliated with TripAdvisor in any way.
He said that Trip Advisor was offering new awards that would help promote my business. - NOT. TripAdvisor was offering no such thing.
saying that they were the official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards. - I bet $100 they are not
Not only is the innkeeper being lied to and mislead. If the innkeeper were scammed out of the money and received the award logo and associated crap and then used it on their website, they would be misleading their potential guests. ANd I think most of the members here would suggest that is a really bad idea. If somebody sells you the fony title for a bridge, you wouldn't then use that to promote yourself. "Hi I'm the new owner of the Brooklyn bridge and I'd like you to choose to stay with us."
Using the arguement that it is good ol american capitalism then paves the way for ever single scam to come along.
.

Using the arguement that it is good ol american capitalism then paves the way for ever single scam to come along.

If it were from TA, if it is not, then obv we know it is a scam out to rip people off.

 

[EmptyNest]

Same as AAA four-diamond award if you use their logo on anything you must pay for it. It is nothing new, they want to make money like all the rest. It is not shameless, it is a business trying to make money. Why do so many innkeepers look at everyone else out there as the enemy? TA is not our enemy, and as stated that some manipulate it for their benefit, is true, but it is there to stay and we need to work with TA not against it. Verify it and use it if you want to..

Sorry Joe, I beg to differ. TA may not be our enemy but it certainly isn't our friend either. It has single handedly changed the whole landscape of innkeeping by introducing the rating system and themselves as the middleman, which has been copied by any number of wannabe sites out there. We needed that like we needed a broken arm. It was all a moneymaking scheme on their part. We had Frommer's and other guides before that, but without all the headeaches.
Now, in addition to all the regular innkeeping tasks; we have to deal with people threatening to blackmail us with bad reviews if we don't drop rates or cater to their other whims, competitors who can write false negative reviews we can't do anything about, or just the occasional psycho who can do the same thing.
Just because you've found a way around the system doesn't mean the rest of us have, or would want to.
.

I can see both sides of this. It's true that TA has been accused if some less than savory practices. I want to see a truly independent site established, not one owned by Expedia. But the nature of online reviews is GOOD...it helps stop unsavory business owners from tricking travelers. I agree that it needs to be worked with, not against.
I don't think I understand the comment about Joe having "found a way around the system"? I must have missed something in a previous discussion.
.

This was originally posted under Afternoon Refreshments. You can refer back to it if you like.
Tim_Toad_HLB wrote:
"If some moron posts a bunch of false crap about your BnB I think it is within your power to call out those who have stayed with you for those "rebuttal" reviews."
We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm convinced that any review not driven of a consumer's own volition and desire to share their experience without prompting, coaching or input by the owner is a false review.
Who says all bad or even lukewarm reviews are false crap? There are times when even a great business drops the ball, or doesn't deliver what they are advertising.
It is that exact self-serving attitude and manipulation of the review process that will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective.
You know, kind of like TA's motto.
"I think it makes good sense to do so. Focusing on correcting the bad guests comments should not be, however the goal, but to push the review down further in the list chronologically. I know of a few inns who have "stand by" reviewers, these are people who have indeed stayed there and will write a review at the request of the innkeeper. Nothing false about it, they stayed there and it is a legit review."
That is the epitome of what I'm referring to. TA isn't "ours" to manipulate or manage. We live in an increasingly skeptical and cynical world. The more people feed the alligator the worse it will get. Travelers use sites like TA because most believe what they read is objective and untouched by any influence or pressure coming from the owner of a business.
"The timing is what bothers you?"
No, its the obvious and strategic manipulation of the process combined with the obvious disrespect it reflects for both the consumer and one's colleagues who play by the books. After all, I thought we were all "co-workers" and part of a fraternity loking out for each other.
Why should TA or sites like it even have posting guidelines and rules if the very folks benefiting the most from its existence work hard to get around them?
"So far I have been fortunate to not have a negative review..."
And if you ever do and its full of crap or falsehoods you have the management response function to use in order to correct and refute the information for the benefit of future potential readers.
Yes I have read some managment responses to bad reviews and they make the situation worse than it already is. I reply to all my reviews and they are not coerced, thank you. If I do get a crappy false review by some moron you bet your

I will call up on reviewers who stayed with me and loved it here. Absolutely. I am not going to let some jerk blacken what we work so hard to provide here for our guests. I will not respond tit for tat to any reviewer, I will move on.
.

Hmmm...I guess I just don't see this as "manipulating" the system. To have someone who has stayed at your property write a review is not coercion or telling falsehoods.
I have to flat out disagree with any concern regarding "...will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective". Because the entire TA site is NOT honest, objective or focused on consumers. It is focused on making money for Expedia, period. Caveat emptor, imo, to the users of TA.
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?

CHILL OUT. I did not say I had done this. I did not say I do this, if I need to I would do this. Why are you arguing on a thread that is not the orig thread and cut n pasting from another thread? I do not get your extreme anger at anyone who has a differing view to yours about trip advisor? Is it because of your negative reviews that set you off against anyone who disagrees?
.

I believe part of this thread has been hijacked. We are not talking about TA reviews here....we are talking about a scammer using TA to do it. Can we keep these threads separate please?

 

[Don Draper]

I totally understand that this is a bogus "award", it's something a business owner would be paying for...but does that make it a "scam"? They don't seem to be misrepresenting what they are selling, or being otherwise misleading. I'm not for or against it either way but I can see there was quite an "against" sentiment for it here, from people whose opinions I trust...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?.

...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?

I don't feel any more against this particular award just because they are using TA as their vehicle - I just am disgusted by any company that would take a $5 product and dress it up as a $300 package, then try to fool some innkeepers who think they are legitimately an arm of TA (or Zagat's, or AAA etc.). Any one of us could create the same logo and stick it on our websites where it means absolutely nothing, and we could do it for free.
ETA: And yes, I think it's a scam. They're selling you nothing, and making you pay something for it.
.

Ah! I'm starting to see why folks would think it's a scam...but others would simply call it good old American capitalism...as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price, and that price is whatever someone is willing to pay for it!
.

as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price
I would argue that most suckers aren't born, they are formed by deceptive offers, mixed in with a dash of greed.
The context of the phone call says it all
I received a phone call from someone yesterday who said that he was calling from the Trip Advisor Award Program. -NOT. It was a call from a someone not affiliated with TripAdvisor in any way.
He said that Trip Advisor was offering new awards that would help promote my business. - NOT. TripAdvisor was offering no such thing.
saying that they were the official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards. - I bet $100 they are not
Not only is the innkeeper being lied to and mislead. If the innkeeper were scammed out of the money and received the award logo and associated crap and then used it on their website, they would be misleading their potential guests. ANd I think most of the members here would suggest that is a really bad idea. If somebody sells you the fony title for a bridge, you wouldn't then use that to promote yourself. "Hi I'm the new owner of the Brooklyn bridge and I'd like you to choose to stay with us."
Using the arguement that it is good ol american capitalism then paves the way for ever single scam to come along.
.

I would just suggest that the words in red above came directly from the innkeeper...so I have no way to know if that is what the caller said or not...unfortunately I know from many, many interactions this person is more than prone to exaggeration, which is maybe why I'm seeing the other side of this as much as I am. There is nothing in the email from In The Spotlight that says they are representing Trip Advisor.
Here is copy from their site:
[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]Since 1997, we have provided the service of informing business owners of their
features in online and print publications and created over 50,000 Museum Quality
Award pieces and other attractive products to display and preserve their
accomplishments. The official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards.[/COLOR]
A Nigerian prince asking me to wire him $10,000 in order to receive $1,000,000 is a SCAM, and it works based on a mixture of GREED and NAIVETE on my part if I choose to engage...I'm just questioning, is this really on the same level?

 

[swirt]

I totally understand that this is a bogus "award", it's something a business owner would be paying for...but does that make it a "scam"? They don't seem to be misrepresenting what they are selling, or being otherwise misleading. I'm not for or against it either way but I can see there was quite an "against" sentiment for it here, from people whose opinions I trust...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?.

...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?

I don't feel any more against this particular award just because they are using TA as their vehicle - I just am disgusted by any company that would take a $5 product and dress it up as a $300 package, then try to fool some innkeepers who think they are legitimately an arm of TA (or Zagat's, or AAA etc.). Any one of us could create the same logo and stick it on our websites where it means absolutely nothing, and we could do it for free.
ETA: And yes, I think it's a scam. They're selling you nothing, and making you pay something for it.
.

Ah! I'm starting to see why folks would think it's a scam...but others would simply call it good old American capitalism...as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price, and that price is whatever someone is willing to pay for it!
.

as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price
I would argue that most suckers aren't born, they are formed by deceptive offers, mixed in with a dash of greed.
The context of the phone call says it all
I received a phone call from someone yesterday who said that he was calling from the Trip Advisor Award Program. -NOT. It was a call from a someone not affiliated with TripAdvisor in any way.
He said that Trip Advisor was offering new awards that would help promote my business. - NOT. TripAdvisor was offering no such thing.
saying that they were the official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards. - I bet $100 they are not
Not only is the innkeeper being lied to and mislead. If the innkeeper were scammed out of the money and received the award logo and associated crap and then used it on their website, they would be misleading their potential guests. ANd I think most of the members here would suggest that is a really bad idea. If somebody sells you the fony title for a bridge, you wouldn't then use that to promote yourself. "Hi I'm the new owner of the Brooklyn bridge and I'd like you to choose to stay with us."
Using the arguement that it is good ol american capitalism then paves the way for ever single scam to come along.
.

I would just suggest that the words in red above came directly from the innkeeper...so I have no way to know if that is what the caller said or not...unfortunately I know from many, many interactions this person is more than prone to exaggeration, which is maybe why I'm seeing the other side of this as much as I am. There is nothing in the email from In The Spotlight that says they are representing Trip Advisor.
Here is copy from their site:
[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]Since 1997, we have provided the service of informing business owners of their
features in online and print publications and created over 50,000 Museum Quality
Award pieces and other attractive products to display and preserve their
accomplishments. The official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards.[/COLOR]
A Nigerian prince asking me to wire him $10,000 in order to receive $1,000,000 is a SCAM, and it works based on a mixture of GREED and NAIVETE on my part if I choose to engage...I'm just questioning, is this really on the same level?
.

I'd say it only differs in the amount being scammed and this company has done a bit more homework...so maybe they "earn" more of their loot.
The alt attribute on the image on the sample website says "Trip Advisor Award" (there is no award) The link doesn't go to TripAdvisor where people can read the reviews, it goes to a PDF file with one cherry-picked review. Granted, the reviews of this place look great (there are 25 of them). Sending people directly to TripAdvisor for the reviews or having them appear in the feed on their site would be SO much better than linking to a meaningless pdf.
These "account managers" for this company work on commission...what they say on the phone and what they say in writing I am sure are a bit different. Either way there is a looseness in the wording that makes it sound like something it is not. The email mentions award..but their is no award. Yes the example place is currently rated #1 for that town, but that is not an award....that can change daily (it may or may not...but it can)

 

[Don Draper]

I totally understand that this is a bogus "award", it's something a business owner would be paying for...but does that make it a "scam"? They don't seem to be misrepresenting what they are selling, or being otherwise misleading. I'm not for or against it either way but I can see there was quite an "against" sentiment for it here, from people whose opinions I trust...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?.

...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?

I don't feel any more against this particular award just because they are using TA as their vehicle - I just am disgusted by any company that would take a $5 product and dress it up as a $300 package, then try to fool some innkeepers who think they are legitimately an arm of TA (or Zagat's, or AAA etc.). Any one of us could create the same logo and stick it on our websites where it means absolutely nothing, and we could do it for free.
ETA: And yes, I think it's a scam. They're selling you nothing, and making you pay something for it.
.

Ah! I'm starting to see why folks would think it's a scam...but others would simply call it good old American capitalism...as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price, and that price is whatever someone is willing to pay for it!
.

as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price
I would argue that most suckers aren't born, they are formed by deceptive offers, mixed in with a dash of greed.
The context of the phone call says it all
I received a phone call from someone yesterday who said that he was calling from the Trip Advisor Award Program. -NOT. It was a call from a someone not affiliated with TripAdvisor in any way.
He said that Trip Advisor was offering new awards that would help promote my business. - NOT. TripAdvisor was offering no such thing.
saying that they were the official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards. - I bet $100 they are not
Not only is the innkeeper being lied to and mislead. If the innkeeper were scammed out of the money and received the award logo and associated crap and then used it on their website, they would be misleading their potential guests. ANd I think most of the members here would suggest that is a really bad idea. If somebody sells you the fony title for a bridge, you wouldn't then use that to promote yourself. "Hi I'm the new owner of the Brooklyn bridge and I'd like you to choose to stay with us."
Using the arguement that it is good ol american capitalism then paves the way for ever single scam to come along.
.

I would just suggest that the words in red above came directly from the innkeeper...so I have no way to know if that is what the caller said or not...unfortunately I know from many, many interactions this person is more than prone to exaggeration, which is maybe why I'm seeing the other side of this as much as I am. There is nothing in the email from In The Spotlight that says they are representing Trip Advisor.
Here is copy from their site:
[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]Since 1997, we have provided the service of informing business owners of their
features in online and print publications and created over 50,000 Museum Quality
Award pieces and other attractive products to display and preserve their
accomplishments. The official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards.[/COLOR]
A Nigerian prince asking me to wire him $10,000 in order to receive $1,000,000 is a SCAM, and it works based on a mixture of GREED and NAIVETE on my part if I choose to engage...I'm just questioning, is this really on the same level?
.

I'd say it only differs in the amount being scammed and this company has done a bit more homework...so maybe they "earn" more of their loot.
The alt attribute on the image on the sample website says "Trip Advisor Award" (there is no award) The link doesn't go to TripAdvisor where people can read the reviews, it goes to a PDF file with one cherry-picked review. Granted, the reviews of this place look great (there are 25 of them). Sending people directly to TripAdvisor for the reviews or having them appear in the feed on their site would be SO much better than linking to a meaningless pdf.
These "account managers" for this company work on commission...what they say on the phone and what they say in writing I am sure are a bit different. Either way there is a looseness in the wording that makes it sound like something it is not. The email mentions award..but their is no award. Yes the example place is currently rated #1 for that town, but that is not an award....that can change daily (it may or may not...but it can)
.

The alt attribute on the image on the sample website says "Trip Advisor Award" (there is no award) The link doesn't go to TripAdvisor where people can read the reviews, it goes to a PDF file with one cherry-picked review. Granted, the reviews of this place look great (there are 25 of them). Sending people directly to TripAdvisor for the reviews or having them appear in the feed on their site would be SO much better than linking to a meaningless pdf.

Good point (as usual) Swirt, and maybe this is how the company is getting around legal issues, by not linking directly to TA.
OTOH, why would you want your site to link back to TA, where folks can just as easily click to your competitor's site?

My, I'm certainly enjoying my devil's advocate role this morning...must have been that extra cup of coffee I had!

 

[Don Draper]

have you been in touch with trip advisor to alert them?
notice the grammatical errors in the email .... i say scam ... BIG scam..

That is what I told the innkeeper to do, SS...I hope she did. Will report back if I hear.

 

[SweetiePie]

Same as AAA four-diamond award if you use their logo on anything you must pay for it. It is nothing new, they want to make money like all the rest. It is not shameless, it is a business trying to make money. Why do so many innkeepers look at everyone else out there as the enemy? TA is not our enemy, and as stated that some manipulate it for their benefit, is true, but it is there to stay and we need to work with TA not against it. Verify it and use it if you want to..

Sorry Joe, I beg to differ. TA may not be our enemy but it certainly isn't our friend either. It has single handedly changed the whole landscape of innkeeping by introducing the rating system and themselves as the middleman, which has been copied by any number of wannabe sites out there. We needed that like we needed a broken arm. It was all a moneymaking scheme on their part. We had Frommer's and other guides before that, but without all the headeaches.
Now, in addition to all the regular innkeeping tasks; we have to deal with people threatening to blackmail us with bad reviews if we don't drop rates or cater to their other whims, competitors who can write false negative reviews we can't do anything about, or just the occasional psycho who can do the same thing.
Just because you've found a way around the system doesn't mean the rest of us have, or would want to.
.

I can see both sides of this. It's true that TA has been accused if some less than savory practices. I want to see a truly independent site established, not one owned by Expedia. But the nature of online reviews is GOOD...it helps stop unsavory business owners from tricking travelers. I agree that it needs to be worked with, not against.
I don't think I understand the comment about Joe having "found a way around the system"? I must have missed something in a previous discussion.
.

This was originally posted under Afternoon Refreshments. You can refer back to it if you like.
Tim_Toad_HLB wrote:
"If some moron posts a bunch of false crap about your BnB I think it is within your power to call out those who have stayed with you for those "rebuttal" reviews."
We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm convinced that any review not driven of a consumer's own volition and desire to share their experience without prompting, coaching or input by the owner is a false review.
Who says all bad or even lukewarm reviews are false crap? There are times when even a great business drops the ball, or doesn't deliver what they are advertising.
It is that exact self-serving attitude and manipulation of the review process that will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective.
You know, kind of like TA's motto.
"I think it makes good sense to do so. Focusing on correcting the bad guests comments should not be, however the goal, but to push the review down further in the list chronologically. I know of a few inns who have "stand by" reviewers, these are people who have indeed stayed there and will write a review at the request of the innkeeper. Nothing false about it, they stayed there and it is a legit review."
That is the epitome of what I'm referring to. TA isn't "ours" to manipulate or manage. We live in an increasingly skeptical and cynical world. The more people feed the alligator the worse it will get. Travelers use sites like TA because most believe what they read is objective and untouched by any influence or pressure coming from the owner of a business.
"The timing is what bothers you?"
No, its the obvious and strategic manipulation of the process combined with the obvious disrespect it reflects for both the consumer and one's colleagues who play by the books. After all, I thought we were all "co-workers" and part of a fraternity loking out for each other.
Why should TA or sites like it even have posting guidelines and rules if the very folks benefiting the most from its existence work hard to get around them?
"So far I have been fortunate to not have a negative review..."
And if you ever do and its full of crap or falsehoods you have the management response function to use in order to correct and refute the information for the benefit of future potential readers.
Yes I have read some managment responses to bad reviews and they make the situation worse than it already is. I reply to all my reviews and they are not coerced, thank you. If I do get a crappy false review by some moron you bet your

I will call up on reviewers who stayed with me and loved it here. Absolutely. I am not going to let some jerk blacken what we work so hard to provide here for our guests. I will not respond tit for tat to any reviewer, I will move on.
.

Hmmm...I guess I just don't see this as "manipulating" the system. To have someone who has stayed at your property write a review is not coercion or telling falsehoods.
I have to flat out disagree with any concern regarding "...will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective". Because the entire TA site is NOT honest, objective or focused on consumers. It is focused on making money for Expedia, period. Caveat emptor, imo, to the users of TA.
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?

CHILL OUT. I did not say I had done this. I did not say I do this, if I need to I would do this. Why are you arguing on a thread that is not the orig thread and cut n pasting from another thread? I do not get your extreme anger at anyone who has a differing view to yours about trip advisor? Is it because of your negative reviews that set you off against anyone who disagrees?
.

First of all, I'm not angry and I don't know what hijacked means. It was posted in response to a question. Second, you seem to be the one taking offense and you didn't even answer the question.
I don't believe this scheme would work unless that backlog of guests were willing to change the date of their stay or they would appear out of order.

 

[swirt]

I totally understand that this is a bogus "award", it's something a business owner would be paying for...but does that make it a "scam"? They don't seem to be misrepresenting what they are selling, or being otherwise misleading. I'm not for or against it either way but I can see there was quite an "against" sentiment for it here, from people whose opinions I trust...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?.

...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?

I don't feel any more against this particular award just because they are using TA as their vehicle - I just am disgusted by any company that would take a $5 product and dress it up as a $300 package, then try to fool some innkeepers who think they are legitimately an arm of TA (or Zagat's, or AAA etc.). Any one of us could create the same logo and stick it on our websites where it means absolutely nothing, and we could do it for free.
ETA: And yes, I think it's a scam. They're selling you nothing, and making you pay something for it.
.

Ah! I'm starting to see why folks would think it's a scam...but others would simply call it good old American capitalism...as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price, and that price is whatever someone is willing to pay for it!
.

as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price
I would argue that most suckers aren't born, they are formed by deceptive offers, mixed in with a dash of greed.
The context of the phone call says it all
I received a phone call from someone yesterday who said that he was calling from the Trip Advisor Award Program. -NOT. It was a call from a someone not affiliated with TripAdvisor in any way.
He said that Trip Advisor was offering new awards that would help promote my business. - NOT. TripAdvisor was offering no such thing.
saying that they were the official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards. - I bet $100 they are not
Not only is the innkeeper being lied to and mislead. If the innkeeper were scammed out of the money and received the award logo and associated crap and then used it on their website, they would be misleading their potential guests. ANd I think most of the members here would suggest that is a really bad idea. If somebody sells you the fony title for a bridge, you wouldn't then use that to promote yourself. "Hi I'm the new owner of the Brooklyn bridge and I'd like you to choose to stay with us."
Using the arguement that it is good ol american capitalism then paves the way for ever single scam to come along.
.

I would just suggest that the words in red above came directly from the innkeeper...so I have no way to know if that is what the caller said or not...unfortunately I know from many, many interactions this person is more than prone to exaggeration, which is maybe why I'm seeing the other side of this as much as I am. There is nothing in the email from In The Spotlight that says they are representing Trip Advisor.
Here is copy from their site:
[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]Since 1997, we have provided the service of informing business owners of their
features in online and print publications and created over 50,000 Museum Quality
Award pieces and other attractive products to display and preserve their
accomplishments. The official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards.[/COLOR]
A Nigerian prince asking me to wire him $10,000 in order to receive $1,000,000 is a SCAM, and it works based on a mixture of GREED and NAIVETE on my part if I choose to engage...I'm just questioning, is this really on the same level?
.

I'd say it only differs in the amount being scammed and this company has done a bit more homework...so maybe they "earn" more of their loot.
The alt attribute on the image on the sample website says "Trip Advisor Award" (there is no award) The link doesn't go to TripAdvisor where people can read the reviews, it goes to a PDF file with one cherry-picked review. Granted, the reviews of this place look great (there are 25 of them). Sending people directly to TripAdvisor for the reviews or having them appear in the feed on their site would be SO much better than linking to a meaningless pdf.
These "account managers" for this company work on commission...what they say on the phone and what they say in writing I am sure are a bit different. Either way there is a looseness in the wording that makes it sound like something it is not. The email mentions award..but their is no award. Yes the example place is currently rated #1 for that town, but that is not an award....that can change daily (it may or may not...but it can)
.

The alt attribute on the image on the sample website says "Trip Advisor Award" (there is no award) The link doesn't go to TripAdvisor where people can read the reviews, it goes to a PDF file with one cherry-picked review. Granted, the reviews of this place look great (there are 25 of them). Sending people directly to TripAdvisor for the reviews or having them appear in the feed on their site would be SO much better than linking to a meaningless pdf.

Good point (as usual) Swirt, and maybe this is how the company is getting around legal issues, by not linking directly to TA.
OTOH, why would you want your site to link back to TA, where folks can just as easily click to your competitor's site?

My, I'm certainly enjoying my devil's advocate role this morning...must have been that extra cup of coffee I had!
.

My, I'm certainly enjoying my devil's advocate role this morning...must have been that extra cup of coffee I had!

LOL you are doing great. It helps to bat these things around for a while and make sense out of them.

OTOH, why would you want your site to link back to TA, where folks can just as easily click to your competitor's site?

Well there is some evidence that suggests having user reviews on your site can (if the reviews are good/credible) persuade people to get off the fence and convert from a website visitor into a paying guest. This is why both TripAdvisor and Bedandbreakfast.com offer review feeds that you can display right on your site. That way visitors don't have to leave your site to read your reviews.

 

[swirt]

Same as AAA four-diamond award if you use their logo on anything you must pay for it. It is nothing new, they want to make money like all the rest. It is not shameless, it is a business trying to make money. Why do so many innkeepers look at everyone else out there as the enemy? TA is not our enemy, and as stated that some manipulate it for their benefit, is true, but it is there to stay and we need to work with TA not against it. Verify it and use it if you want to..

Sorry Joe, I beg to differ. TA may not be our enemy but it certainly isn't our friend either. It has single handedly changed the whole landscape of innkeeping by introducing the rating system and themselves as the middleman, which has been copied by any number of wannabe sites out there. We needed that like we needed a broken arm. It was all a moneymaking scheme on their part. We had Frommer's and other guides before that, but without all the headeaches.
Now, in addition to all the regular innkeeping tasks; we have to deal with people threatening to blackmail us with bad reviews if we don't drop rates or cater to their other whims, competitors who can write false negative reviews we can't do anything about, or just the occasional psycho who can do the same thing.
Just because you've found a way around the system doesn't mean the rest of us have, or would want to.
.

I can see both sides of this. It's true that TA has been accused if some less than savory practices. I want to see a truly independent site established, not one owned by Expedia. But the nature of online reviews is GOOD...it helps stop unsavory business owners from tricking travelers. I agree that it needs to be worked with, not against.
I don't think I understand the comment about Joe having "found a way around the system"? I must have missed something in a previous discussion.
.

This was originally posted under Afternoon Refreshments. You can refer back to it if you like.
Tim_Toad_HLB wrote:
"If some moron posts a bunch of false crap about your BnB I think it is within your power to call out those who have stayed with you for those "rebuttal" reviews."
We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm convinced that any review not driven of a consumer's own volition and desire to share their experience without prompting, coaching or input by the owner is a false review.
Who says all bad or even lukewarm reviews are false crap? There are times when even a great business drops the ball, or doesn't deliver what they are advertising.
It is that exact self-serving attitude and manipulation of the review process that will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective.
You know, kind of like TA's motto.
"I think it makes good sense to do so. Focusing on correcting the bad guests comments should not be, however the goal, but to push the review down further in the list chronologically. I know of a few inns who have "stand by" reviewers, these are people who have indeed stayed there and will write a review at the request of the innkeeper. Nothing false about it, they stayed there and it is a legit review."
That is the epitome of what I'm referring to. TA isn't "ours" to manipulate or manage. We live in an increasingly skeptical and cynical world. The more people feed the alligator the worse it will get. Travelers use sites like TA because most believe what they read is objective and untouched by any influence or pressure coming from the owner of a business.
"The timing is what bothers you?"
No, its the obvious and strategic manipulation of the process combined with the obvious disrespect it reflects for both the consumer and one's colleagues who play by the books. After all, I thought we were all "co-workers" and part of a fraternity loking out for each other.
Why should TA or sites like it even have posting guidelines and rules if the very folks benefiting the most from its existence work hard to get around them?
"So far I have been fortunate to not have a negative review..."
And if you ever do and its full of crap or falsehoods you have the management response function to use in order to correct and refute the information for the benefit of future potential readers.
Yes I have read some managment responses to bad reviews and they make the situation worse than it already is. I reply to all my reviews and they are not coerced, thank you. If I do get a crappy false review by some moron you bet your

I will call up on reviewers who stayed with me and loved it here. Absolutely. I am not going to let some jerk blacken what we work so hard to provide here for our guests. I will not respond tit for tat to any reviewer, I will move on.
.

Hmmm...I guess I just don't see this as "manipulating" the system. To have someone who has stayed at your property write a review is not coercion or telling falsehoods.
I have to flat out disagree with any concern regarding "...will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective". Because the entire TA site is NOT honest, objective or focused on consumers. It is focused on making money for Expedia, period. Caveat emptor, imo, to the users of TA.
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?

CHILL OUT. I did not say I had done this. I did not say I do this, if I need to I would do this. Why are you arguing on a thread that is not the orig thread and cut n pasting from another thread? I do not get your extreme anger at anyone who has a differing view to yours about trip advisor? Is it because of your negative reviews that set you off against anyone who disagrees?
.

First of all, I'm not angry and I don't know what hijacked means. It was posted in response to a question. Second, you seem to be the one taking offense and you didn't even answer the question.
I don't believe this scheme would work unless that backlog of guests were willing to change the date of their stay or they would appear out of order.
.

...I don't know what hijacked means. ...

It just means that the original topic of conversation has been pulled off course. It happens all the time here and often some great stuff comes out of it, but it does make things hard to follow sometimes.

 

[muirford]

Same as AAA four-diamond award if you use their logo on anything you must pay for it. It is nothing new, they want to make money like all the rest. It is not shameless, it is a business trying to make money. Why do so many innkeepers look at everyone else out there as the enemy? TA is not our enemy, and as stated that some manipulate it for their benefit, is true, but it is there to stay and we need to work with TA not against it. Verify it and use it if you want to..

Sorry Joe, I beg to differ. TA may not be our enemy but it certainly isn't our friend either. It has single handedly changed the whole landscape of innkeeping by introducing the rating system and themselves as the middleman, which has been copied by any number of wannabe sites out there. We needed that like we needed a broken arm. It was all a moneymaking scheme on their part. We had Frommer's and other guides before that, but without all the headeaches.
Now, in addition to all the regular innkeeping tasks; we have to deal with people threatening to blackmail us with bad reviews if we don't drop rates or cater to their other whims, competitors who can write false negative reviews we can't do anything about, or just the occasional psycho who can do the same thing.
Just because you've found a way around the system doesn't mean the rest of us have, or would want to.
.

I can see both sides of this. It's true that TA has been accused if some less than savory practices. I want to see a truly independent site established, not one owned by Expedia. But the nature of online reviews is GOOD...it helps stop unsavory business owners from tricking travelers. I agree that it needs to be worked with, not against.
I don't think I understand the comment about Joe having "found a way around the system"? I must have missed something in a previous discussion.
.

This was originally posted under Afternoon Refreshments. You can refer back to it if you like.
Tim_Toad_HLB wrote:
"If some moron posts a bunch of false crap about your BnB I think it is within your power to call out those who have stayed with you for those "rebuttal" reviews."
We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm convinced that any review not driven of a consumer's own volition and desire to share their experience without prompting, coaching or input by the owner is a false review.
Who says all bad or even lukewarm reviews are false crap? There are times when even a great business drops the ball, or doesn't deliver what they are advertising.
It is that exact self-serving attitude and manipulation of the review process that will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective.
You know, kind of like TA's motto.
"I think it makes good sense to do so. Focusing on correcting the bad guests comments should not be, however the goal, but to push the review down further in the list chronologically. I know of a few inns who have "stand by" reviewers, these are people who have indeed stayed there and will write a review at the request of the innkeeper. Nothing false about it, they stayed there and it is a legit review."
That is the epitome of what I'm referring to. TA isn't "ours" to manipulate or manage. We live in an increasingly skeptical and cynical world. The more people feed the alligator the worse it will get. Travelers use sites like TA because most believe what they read is objective and untouched by any influence or pressure coming from the owner of a business.
"The timing is what bothers you?"
No, its the obvious and strategic manipulation of the process combined with the obvious disrespect it reflects for both the consumer and one's colleagues who play by the books. After all, I thought we were all "co-workers" and part of a fraternity loking out for each other.
Why should TA or sites like it even have posting guidelines and rules if the very folks benefiting the most from its existence work hard to get around them?
"So far I have been fortunate to not have a negative review..."
And if you ever do and its full of crap or falsehoods you have the management response function to use in order to correct and refute the information for the benefit of future potential readers.
Yes I have read some managment responses to bad reviews and they make the situation worse than it already is. I reply to all my reviews and they are not coerced, thank you. If I do get a crappy false review by some moron you bet your

I will call up on reviewers who stayed with me and loved it here. Absolutely. I am not going to let some jerk blacken what we work so hard to provide here for our guests. I will not respond tit for tat to any reviewer, I will move on.
.

Hmmm...I guess I just don't see this as "manipulating" the system. To have someone who has stayed at your property write a review is not coercion or telling falsehoods.
I have to flat out disagree with any concern regarding "...will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective". Because the entire TA site is NOT honest, objective or focused on consumers. It is focused on making money for Expedia, period. Caveat emptor, imo, to the users of TA.
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?

CHILL OUT. I did not say I had done this. I did not say I do this, if I need to I would do this. Why are you arguing on a thread that is not the orig thread and cut n pasting from another thread? I do not get your extreme anger at anyone who has a differing view to yours about trip advisor? Is it because of your negative reviews that set you off against anyone who disagrees?
.

First of all, I'm not angry and I don't know what hijacked means. It was posted in response to a question. Second, you seem to be the one taking offense and you didn't even answer the question.
I don't believe this scheme would work unless that backlog of guests were willing to change the date of their stay or they would appear out of order.
.

TA reviews are initially posted in the order in which they go in to TA, not by date of stay. Now you can sort the reviews all sorts of ways, so that may be less important. One click allows you to see all the 1-star reviews together, etc.

 

[SweetiePie]

I totally understand that this is a bogus "award", it's something a business owner would be paying for...but does that make it a "scam"? They don't seem to be misrepresenting what they are selling, or being otherwise misleading. I'm not for or against it either way but I can see there was quite an "against" sentiment for it here, from people whose opinions I trust...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?.

...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?

I don't feel any more against this particular award just because they are using TA as their vehicle - I just am disgusted by any company that would take a $5 product and dress it up as a $300 package, then try to fool some innkeepers who think they are legitimately an arm of TA (or Zagat's, or AAA etc.). Any one of us could create the same logo and stick it on our websites where it means absolutely nothing, and we could do it for free.
ETA: And yes, I think it's a scam. They're selling you nothing, and making you pay something for it.
.

Ah! I'm starting to see why folks would think it's a scam...but others would simply call it good old American capitalism...as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price, and that price is whatever someone is willing to pay for it!
.

as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price
I would argue that most suckers aren't born, they are formed by deceptive offers, mixed in with a dash of greed.
The context of the phone call says it all
I received a phone call from someone yesterday who said that he was calling from the Trip Advisor Award Program. -NOT. It was a call from a someone not affiliated with TripAdvisor in any way.
He said that Trip Advisor was offering new awards that would help promote my business. - NOT. TripAdvisor was offering no such thing.
saying that they were the official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards. - I bet $100 they are not
Not only is the innkeeper being lied to and mislead. If the innkeeper were scammed out of the money and received the award logo and associated crap and then used it on their website, they would be misleading their potential guests. ANd I think most of the members here would suggest that is a really bad idea. If somebody sells you the fony title for a bridge, you wouldn't then use that to promote yourself. "Hi I'm the new owner of the Brooklyn bridge and I'd like you to choose to stay with us."
Using the arguement that it is good ol american capitalism then paves the way for ever single scam to come along.
.

I would just suggest that the words in red above came directly from the innkeeper...so I have no way to know if that is what the caller said or not...unfortunately I know from many, many interactions this person is more than prone to exaggeration, which is maybe why I'm seeing the other side of this as much as I am. There is nothing in the email from In The Spotlight that says they are representing Trip Advisor.
Here is copy from their site:
[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]Since 1997, we have provided the service of informing business owners of their
features in online and print publications and created over 50,000 Museum Quality
Award pieces and other attractive products to display and preserve their
accomplishments. The official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards.[/COLOR]
A Nigerian prince asking me to wire him $10,000 in order to receive $1,000,000 is a SCAM, and it works based on a mixture of GREED and NAIVETE on my part if I choose to engage...I'm just questioning, is this really on the same level?
.

I'd say it only differs in the amount being scammed and this company has done a bit more homework...so maybe they "earn" more of their loot.
The alt attribute on the image on the sample website says "Trip Advisor Award" (there is no award) The link doesn't go to TripAdvisor where people can read the reviews, it goes to a PDF file with one cherry-picked review. Granted, the reviews of this place look great (there are 25 of them). Sending people directly to TripAdvisor for the reviews or having them appear in the feed on their site would be SO much better than linking to a meaningless pdf.
These "account managers" for this company work on commission...what they say on the phone and what they say in writing I am sure are a bit different. Either way there is a looseness in the wording that makes it sound like something it is not. The email mentions award..but their is no award. Yes the example place is currently rated #1 for that town, but that is not an award....that can change daily (it may or may not...but it can)
.

The alt attribute on the image on the sample website says "Trip Advisor Award" (there is no award) The link doesn't go to TripAdvisor where people can read the reviews, it goes to a PDF file with one cherry-picked review. Granted, the reviews of this place look great (there are 25 of them). Sending people directly to TripAdvisor for the reviews or having them appear in the feed on their site would be SO much better than linking to a meaningless pdf.

Good point (as usual) Swirt, and maybe this is how the company is getting around legal issues, by not linking directly to TA.
OTOH, why would you want your site to link back to TA, where folks can just as easily click to your competitor's site?

My, I'm certainly enjoying my devil's advocate role this morning...must have been that extra cup of coffee I had!
.

My, I'm certainly enjoying my devil's advocate role this morning...must have been that extra cup of coffee I had!

LOL you are doing great. It helps to bat these things around for a while and make sense out of them.

OTOH, why would you want your site to link back to TA, where folks can just as easily click to your competitor's site?

Well there is some evidence that suggests having user reviews on your site can (if the reviews are good/credible) persuade people to get off the fence and convert from a website visitor into a paying guest. This is why both TripAdvisor and Bedandbreakfast.com offer review feeds that you can display right on your site. That way visitors don't have to leave your site to read your reviews.
.

Just to play devil's advocate. It also makes it easier for those same people to post a negative review, if they so choose, and they may not even have known about Trip Advisor.

 

[SweetiePie]

Same as AAA four-diamond award if you use their logo on anything you must pay for it. It is nothing new, they want to make money like all the rest. It is not shameless, it is a business trying to make money. Why do so many innkeepers look at everyone else out there as the enemy? TA is not our enemy, and as stated that some manipulate it for their benefit, is true, but it is there to stay and we need to work with TA not against it. Verify it and use it if you want to..

Sorry Joe, I beg to differ. TA may not be our enemy but it certainly isn't our friend either. It has single handedly changed the whole landscape of innkeeping by introducing the rating system and themselves as the middleman, which has been copied by any number of wannabe sites out there. We needed that like we needed a broken arm. It was all a moneymaking scheme on their part. We had Frommer's and other guides before that, but without all the headeaches.
Now, in addition to all the regular innkeeping tasks; we have to deal with people threatening to blackmail us with bad reviews if we don't drop rates or cater to their other whims, competitors who can write false negative reviews we can't do anything about, or just the occasional psycho who can do the same thing.
Just because you've found a way around the system doesn't mean the rest of us have, or would want to.
.

I can see both sides of this. It's true that TA has been accused if some less than savory practices. I want to see a truly independent site established, not one owned by Expedia. But the nature of online reviews is GOOD...it helps stop unsavory business owners from tricking travelers. I agree that it needs to be worked with, not against.
I don't think I understand the comment about Joe having "found a way around the system"? I must have missed something in a previous discussion.
.

This was originally posted under Afternoon Refreshments. You can refer back to it if you like.
Tim_Toad_HLB wrote:
"If some moron posts a bunch of false crap about your BnB I think it is within your power to call out those who have stayed with you for those "rebuttal" reviews."
We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm convinced that any review not driven of a consumer's own volition and desire to share their experience without prompting, coaching or input by the owner is a false review.
Who says all bad or even lukewarm reviews are false crap? There are times when even a great business drops the ball, or doesn't deliver what they are advertising.
It is that exact self-serving attitude and manipulation of the review process that will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective.
You know, kind of like TA's motto.
"I think it makes good sense to do so. Focusing on correcting the bad guests comments should not be, however the goal, but to push the review down further in the list chronologically. I know of a few inns who have "stand by" reviewers, these are people who have indeed stayed there and will write a review at the request of the innkeeper. Nothing false about it, they stayed there and it is a legit review."
That is the epitome of what I'm referring to. TA isn't "ours" to manipulate or manage. We live in an increasingly skeptical and cynical world. The more people feed the alligator the worse it will get. Travelers use sites like TA because most believe what they read is objective and untouched by any influence or pressure coming from the owner of a business.
"The timing is what bothers you?"
No, its the obvious and strategic manipulation of the process combined with the obvious disrespect it reflects for both the consumer and one's colleagues who play by the books. After all, I thought we were all "co-workers" and part of a fraternity loking out for each other.
Why should TA or sites like it even have posting guidelines and rules if the very folks benefiting the most from its existence work hard to get around them?
"So far I have been fortunate to not have a negative review..."
And if you ever do and its full of crap or falsehoods you have the management response function to use in order to correct and refute the information for the benefit of future potential readers.
Yes I have read some managment responses to bad reviews and they make the situation worse than it already is. I reply to all my reviews and they are not coerced, thank you. If I do get a crappy false review by some moron you bet your

I will call up on reviewers who stayed with me and loved it here. Absolutely. I am not going to let some jerk blacken what we work so hard to provide here for our guests. I will not respond tit for tat to any reviewer, I will move on.
.

Hmmm...I guess I just don't see this as "manipulating" the system. To have someone who has stayed at your property write a review is not coercion or telling falsehoods.
I have to flat out disagree with any concern regarding "...will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective". Because the entire TA site is NOT honest, objective or focused on consumers. It is focused on making money for Expedia, period. Caveat emptor, imo, to the users of TA.
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?

CHILL OUT. I did not say I had done this. I did not say I do this, if I need to I would do this. Why are you arguing on a thread that is not the orig thread and cut n pasting from another thread? I do not get your extreme anger at anyone who has a differing view to yours about trip advisor? Is it because of your negative reviews that set you off against anyone who disagrees?
.

First of all, I'm not angry and I don't know what hijacked means. It was posted in response to a question. Second, you seem to be the one taking offense and you didn't even answer the question.
I don't believe this scheme would work unless that backlog of guests were willing to change the date of their stay or they would appear out of order.
.

TA reviews are initially posted in the order in which they go in to TA, not by date of stay. Now you can sort the reviews all sorts of ways, so that may be less important. One click allows you to see all the 1-star reviews together, etc.
.

I just found an example of this already being implemented on TA, apparently Joe didn't invent it.
A poor review from May of 2008 is now superceded by a review dated June 2009, when the date of stay was June of 2008. As a reader, I would be very suspicious of a review like that.

 

[EmptyNest]

Same as AAA four-diamond award if you use their logo on anything you must pay for it. It is nothing new, they want to make money like all the rest. It is not shameless, it is a business trying to make money. Why do so many innkeepers look at everyone else out there as the enemy? TA is not our enemy, and as stated that some manipulate it for their benefit, is true, but it is there to stay and we need to work with TA not against it. Verify it and use it if you want to..

Sorry Joe, I beg to differ. TA may not be our enemy but it certainly isn't our friend either. It has single handedly changed the whole landscape of innkeeping by introducing the rating system and themselves as the middleman, which has been copied by any number of wannabe sites out there. We needed that like we needed a broken arm. It was all a moneymaking scheme on their part. We had Frommer's and other guides before that, but without all the headeaches.
Now, in addition to all the regular innkeeping tasks; we have to deal with people threatening to blackmail us with bad reviews if we don't drop rates or cater to their other whims, competitors who can write false negative reviews we can't do anything about, or just the occasional psycho who can do the same thing.
Just because you've found a way around the system doesn't mean the rest of us have, or would want to.
.

I can see both sides of this. It's true that TA has been accused if some less than savory practices. I want to see a truly independent site established, not one owned by Expedia. But the nature of online reviews is GOOD...it helps stop unsavory business owners from tricking travelers. I agree that it needs to be worked with, not against.
I don't think I understand the comment about Joe having "found a way around the system"? I must have missed something in a previous discussion.
.

This was originally posted under Afternoon Refreshments. You can refer back to it if you like.
Tim_Toad_HLB wrote:
"If some moron posts a bunch of false crap about your BnB I think it is within your power to call out those who have stayed with you for those "rebuttal" reviews."
We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm convinced that any review not driven of a consumer's own volition and desire to share their experience without prompting, coaching or input by the owner is a false review.
Who says all bad or even lukewarm reviews are false crap? There are times when even a great business drops the ball, or doesn't deliver what they are advertising.
It is that exact self-serving attitude and manipulation of the review process that will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective.
You know, kind of like TA's motto.
"I think it makes good sense to do so. Focusing on correcting the bad guests comments should not be, however the goal, but to push the review down further in the list chronologically. I know of a few inns who have "stand by" reviewers, these are people who have indeed stayed there and will write a review at the request of the innkeeper. Nothing false about it, they stayed there and it is a legit review."
That is the epitome of what I'm referring to. TA isn't "ours" to manipulate or manage. We live in an increasingly skeptical and cynical world. The more people feed the alligator the worse it will get. Travelers use sites like TA because most believe what they read is objective and untouched by any influence or pressure coming from the owner of a business.
"The timing is what bothers you?"
No, its the obvious and strategic manipulation of the process combined with the obvious disrespect it reflects for both the consumer and one's colleagues who play by the books. After all, I thought we were all "co-workers" and part of a fraternity loking out for each other.
Why should TA or sites like it even have posting guidelines and rules if the very folks benefiting the most from its existence work hard to get around them?
"So far I have been fortunate to not have a negative review..."
And if you ever do and its full of crap or falsehoods you have the management response function to use in order to correct and refute the information for the benefit of future potential readers.
Yes I have read some managment responses to bad reviews and they make the situation worse than it already is. I reply to all my reviews and they are not coerced, thank you. If I do get a crappy false review by some moron you bet your

I will call up on reviewers who stayed with me and loved it here. Absolutely. I am not going to let some jerk blacken what we work so hard to provide here for our guests. I will not respond tit for tat to any reviewer, I will move on.
.

Hmmm...I guess I just don't see this as "manipulating" the system. To have someone who has stayed at your property write a review is not coercion or telling falsehoods.
I have to flat out disagree with any concern regarding "...will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective". Because the entire TA site is NOT honest, objective or focused on consumers. It is focused on making money for Expedia, period. Caveat emptor, imo, to the users of TA.
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?

CHILL OUT. I did not say I had done this. I did not say I do this, if I need to I would do this. Why are you arguing on a thread that is not the orig thread and cut n pasting from another thread? I do not get your extreme anger at anyone who has a differing view to yours about trip advisor? Is it because of your negative reviews that set you off against anyone who disagrees?
.

First of all, I'm not angry and I don't know what hijacked means. It was posted in response to a question. Second, you seem to be the one taking offense and you didn't even answer the question.
I don't believe this scheme would work unless that backlog of guests were willing to change the date of their stay or they would appear out of order.
.

TA reviews are initially posted in the order in which they go in to TA, not by date of stay. Now you can sort the reviews all sorts of ways, so that may be less important. One click allows you to see all the 1-star reviews together, etc.
.

I just found an example of this already being implemented on TA, apparently Joe didn't invent it.
A poor review from May of 2008 is now superceded by a review dated June 2009, when the date of stay was June of 2008. As a reader, I would be very suspicious of a review like that.
.

Did you do some type of sort..or just clicked on the poor rating which would bring that one up first? OR was the poor rating the first thing you saw when you opened the inn's TA listing?

 

[SweetiePie]

Same as AAA four-diamond award if you use their logo on anything you must pay for it. It is nothing new, they want to make money like all the rest. It is not shameless, it is a business trying to make money. Why do so many innkeepers look at everyone else out there as the enemy? TA is not our enemy, and as stated that some manipulate it for their benefit, is true, but it is there to stay and we need to work with TA not against it. Verify it and use it if you want to..

Sorry Joe, I beg to differ. TA may not be our enemy but it certainly isn't our friend either. It has single handedly changed the whole landscape of innkeeping by introducing the rating system and themselves as the middleman, which has been copied by any number of wannabe sites out there. We needed that like we needed a broken arm. It was all a moneymaking scheme on their part. We had Frommer's and other guides before that, but without all the headeaches.
Now, in addition to all the regular innkeeping tasks; we have to deal with people threatening to blackmail us with bad reviews if we don't drop rates or cater to their other whims, competitors who can write false negative reviews we can't do anything about, or just the occasional psycho who can do the same thing.
Just because you've found a way around the system doesn't mean the rest of us have, or would want to.
.

I can see both sides of this. It's true that TA has been accused if some less than savory practices. I want to see a truly independent site established, not one owned by Expedia. But the nature of online reviews is GOOD...it helps stop unsavory business owners from tricking travelers. I agree that it needs to be worked with, not against.
I don't think I understand the comment about Joe having "found a way around the system"? I must have missed something in a previous discussion.
.

This was originally posted under Afternoon Refreshments. You can refer back to it if you like.
Tim_Toad_HLB wrote:
"If some moron posts a bunch of false crap about your BnB I think it is within your power to call out those who have stayed with you for those "rebuttal" reviews."
We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm convinced that any review not driven of a consumer's own volition and desire to share their experience without prompting, coaching or input by the owner is a false review.
Who says all bad or even lukewarm reviews are false crap? There are times when even a great business drops the ball, or doesn't deliver what they are advertising.
It is that exact self-serving attitude and manipulation of the review process that will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective.
You know, kind of like TA's motto.
"I think it makes good sense to do so. Focusing on correcting the bad guests comments should not be, however the goal, but to push the review down further in the list chronologically. I know of a few inns who have "stand by" reviewers, these are people who have indeed stayed there and will write a review at the request of the innkeeper. Nothing false about it, they stayed there and it is a legit review."
That is the epitome of what I'm referring to. TA isn't "ours" to manipulate or manage. We live in an increasingly skeptical and cynical world. The more people feed the alligator the worse it will get. Travelers use sites like TA because most believe what they read is objective and untouched by any influence or pressure coming from the owner of a business.
"The timing is what bothers you?"
No, its the obvious and strategic manipulation of the process combined with the obvious disrespect it reflects for both the consumer and one's colleagues who play by the books. After all, I thought we were all "co-workers" and part of a fraternity loking out for each other.
Why should TA or sites like it even have posting guidelines and rules if the very folks benefiting the most from its existence work hard to get around them?
"So far I have been fortunate to not have a negative review..."
And if you ever do and its full of crap or falsehoods you have the management response function to use in order to correct and refute the information for the benefit of future potential readers.
Yes I have read some managment responses to bad reviews and they make the situation worse than it already is. I reply to all my reviews and they are not coerced, thank you. If I do get a crappy false review by some moron you bet your

I will call up on reviewers who stayed with me and loved it here. Absolutely. I am not going to let some jerk blacken what we work so hard to provide here for our guests. I will not respond tit for tat to any reviewer, I will move on.
.

Hmmm...I guess I just don't see this as "manipulating" the system. To have someone who has stayed at your property write a review is not coercion or telling falsehoods.
I have to flat out disagree with any concern regarding "...will eventually lead to consumers not fully trusting what they read as being honest and objective". Because the entire TA site is NOT honest, objective or focused on consumers. It is focused on making money for Expedia, period. Caveat emptor, imo, to the users of TA.
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?
.

Since Joe hasn't actually had the need to implement this system yet, I have a question. Since he apparently has this backlog of guests who have stayed there in the past but not yet posted a review, how are their reviews of stays prior to the offending guest going to push the offending review down the list?

CHILL OUT. I did not say I had done this. I did not say I do this, if I need to I would do this. Why are you arguing on a thread that is not the orig thread and cut n pasting from another thread? I do not get your extreme anger at anyone who has a differing view to yours about trip advisor? Is it because of your negative reviews that set you off against anyone who disagrees?
.

First of all, I'm not angry and I don't know what hijacked means. It was posted in response to a question. Second, you seem to be the one taking offense and you didn't even answer the question.
I don't believe this scheme would work unless that backlog of guests were willing to change the date of their stay or they would appear out of order.
.

TA reviews are initially posted in the order in which they go in to TA, not by date of stay. Now you can sort the reviews all sorts of ways, so that may be less important. One click allows you to see all the 1-star reviews together, etc.
.

I just found an example of this already being implemented on TA, apparently Joe didn't invent it.
A poor review from May of 2008 is now superceded by a review dated June 2009, when the date of stay was June of 2008. As a reader, I would be very suspicious of a review like that.
.

Did you do some type of sort..or just clicked on the poor rating which would bring that one up first? OR was the poor rating the first thing you saw when you opened the inn's TA listing?
.

I just got lucky on this one. I knew of a local place that had had a negative review followed by a positive review. I just checked the date of visit on the positive one and found that it was a year ago.

 

[SweetiePie]

Just to show how inaccurate these TA listings are, take a look at this. Apparently they reviewed it before they even stayed there and before they joined.
Date of review: Aug 26, 2004

• Date of stay January 2005
• Member since March 08, 2005

 

[swirt]

I totally understand that this is a bogus "award", it's something a business owner would be paying for...but does that make it a "scam"? They don't seem to be misrepresenting what they are selling, or being otherwise misleading. I'm not for or against it either way but I can see there was quite an "against" sentiment for it here, from people whose opinions I trust...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?.

...so I'm just trying to understand the "why" of everyone feeling this way. Is it that we feel manipulated by TA?

I don't feel any more against this particular award just because they are using TA as their vehicle - I just am disgusted by any company that would take a $5 product and dress it up as a $300 package, then try to fool some innkeepers who think they are legitimately an arm of TA (or Zagat's, or AAA etc.). Any one of us could create the same logo and stick it on our websites where it means absolutely nothing, and we could do it for free.
ETA: And yes, I think it's a scam. They're selling you nothing, and making you pay something for it.
.

Ah! I'm starting to see why folks would think it's a scam...but others would simply call it good old American capitalism...as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price, and that price is whatever someone is willing to pay for it!
.

as in, there's a sucker born every minute, everything has a price
I would argue that most suckers aren't born, they are formed by deceptive offers, mixed in with a dash of greed.
The context of the phone call says it all
I received a phone call from someone yesterday who said that he was calling from the Trip Advisor Award Program. -NOT. It was a call from a someone not affiliated with TripAdvisor in any way.
He said that Trip Advisor was offering new awards that would help promote my business. - NOT. TripAdvisor was offering no such thing.
saying that they were the official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards. - I bet $100 they are not
Not only is the innkeeper being lied to and mislead. If the innkeeper were scammed out of the money and received the award logo and associated crap and then used it on their website, they would be misleading their potential guests. ANd I think most of the members here would suggest that is a really bad idea. If somebody sells you the fony title for a bridge, you wouldn't then use that to promote yourself. "Hi I'm the new owner of the Brooklyn bridge and I'd like you to choose to stay with us."
Using the arguement that it is good ol american capitalism then paves the way for ever single scam to come along.
.

I would just suggest that the words in red above came directly from the innkeeper...so I have no way to know if that is what the caller said or not...unfortunately I know from many, many interactions this person is more than prone to exaggeration, which is maybe why I'm seeing the other side of this as much as I am. There is nothing in the email from In The Spotlight that says they are representing Trip Advisor.
Here is copy from their site:
[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]Since 1997, we have provided the service of informing business owners of their
features in online and print publications and created over 50,000 Museum Quality
Award pieces and other attractive products to display and preserve their
accomplishments. The official authorized dealer of Zagat recognition awards.[/COLOR]
A Nigerian prince asking me to wire him $10,000 in order to receive $1,000,000 is a SCAM, and it works based on a mixture of GREED and NAIVETE on my part if I choose to engage...I'm just questioning, is this really on the same level?
.

I'd say it only differs in the amount being scammed and this company has done a bit more homework...so maybe they "earn" more of their loot.
The alt attribute on the image on the sample website says "Trip Advisor Award" (there is no award) The link doesn't go to TripAdvisor where people can read the reviews, it goes to a PDF file with one cherry-picked review. Granted, the reviews of this place look great (there are 25 of them). Sending people directly to TripAdvisor for the reviews or having them appear in the feed on their site would be SO much better than linking to a meaningless pdf.
These "account managers" for this company work on commission...what they say on the phone and what they say in writing I am sure are a bit different. Either way there is a looseness in the wording that makes it sound like something it is not. The email mentions award..but their is no award. Yes the example place is currently rated #1 for that town, but that is not an award....that can change daily (it may or may not...but it can)
.

The alt attribute on the image on the sample website says "Trip Advisor Award" (there is no award) The link doesn't go to TripAdvisor where people can read the reviews, it goes to a PDF file with one cherry-picked review. Granted, the reviews of this place look great (there are 25 of them). Sending people directly to TripAdvisor for the reviews or having them appear in the feed on their site would be SO much better than linking to a meaningless pdf.

Good point (as usual) Swirt, and maybe this is how the company is getting around legal issues, by not linking directly to TA.
OTOH, why would you want your site to link back to TA, where folks can just as easily click to your competitor's site?

My, I'm certainly enjoying my devil's advocate role this morning...must have been that extra cup of coffee I had!
.

My, I'm certainly enjoying my devil's advocate role this morning...must have been that extra cup of coffee I had!

LOL you are doing great. It helps to bat these things around for a while and make sense out of them.

OTOH, why would you want your site to link back to TA, where folks can just as easily click to your competitor's site?

Well there is some evidence that suggests having user reviews on your site can (if the reviews are good/credible) persuade people to get off the fence and convert from a website visitor into a paying guest. This is why both TripAdvisor and Bedandbreakfast.com offer review feeds that you can display right on your site. That way visitors don't have to leave your site to read your reviews.
.

Just to play devil's advocate. It also makes it easier for those same people to post a negative review, if they so choose, and they may not even have known about Trip Advisor.
.

Just to play devil's advocate. It also makes it easier for those same people to post a negative review, if they so choose, and they may not even have known about Trip Advisor.

You are right. You take your chances with that. The hope is that they have a good enough time to post only positive reviews. Nothing ventured, nothing won or lost...probably.

 

[swirt]

Just to show how inaccurate these TA listings are, take a look at this. Apparently they reviewed it before they even stayed there and before they joined.
Date of review: Aug 26, 2004

• Date of stay January 2005
• Member since March 08, 2005

.

Seems like a technical glitch. You shouldn't be able to post a review before you are a member. The example is 5 years old...I bet they have plugged that hole by now.
Definitely the one that can be in error is the date of stay since they pick the date. (the others are automatic) . I know even on my reservation system I get a lot of reservations from people in Alabama. We've never had anyone from Alabama ever reserve, but when they pick NY as the state then use their scroll wheel on the mouse it often races back up to the first choice in the list which is alabama. I could see the same thing happen with the date picker for date of stay.