Over Capacity Rule Breakers

[gillumhouse]

Everyone I know here in town has faced that issues this summer. We just had a family show up when the room was reserved for two. There is a two guest maximum in the room. We are limited by the state (same state as you) to a maximum of 16 guests. Over that and we become a hotel, with hotel rules.
We told the family to leave.
Others have been able to squeeze in the extra guests. You cannot. Sleeping in tents but using the bathroom in one cabin is not good. The more you allow the more the guests will push.
It's the hardest thing you'll do this year, but you have to. You need to regain your sanity and your equilibrium. Tell the trespassers, as they leave, you will not be able to accommodate all the extra people next year. You are sure they understand it is unfair to all the other guests who took two cabins to see your family pitching tents and essentially getting a free vacation for half the family.
Say you will be happy to reserve their 2 or 3 cabins right now for next year. But, you will ask them to leave, with no refunds, next year if they show up with more guests than are allowed.
Once you've told one family, the next one is easier. Not easy. But easier.
You have to protect your investment.
If they are able to sneak extra guests in, you may want to figure out how that is happening. Do you greet them and take them to the cabins? Do they stop to pick up a key? Perhaps you need a different system that puts you right at the car when they drive up. Maybe a booth right at the road? I know that's a lot of work, but so would be digging up the septic on a hot August day..

Thank you Morticia (i love your name!) - I've gotten the idea from other contracts I've reviewed that I will start making people list the exact guests who will be with them on the rental agreement. I'm going to have to confront the guests today because as I watched them yesterday, I'm almost positive they have extra people. Almost every who stays here is 'like family' because they have been coming for so long and I think that's part of the problem - they just seem to think they can take advantage and I 'won't mind'. Unfortunately, they have no clue how much i DO MIND relative to this issue. It's infuriating.
.

I think you also need to explain to the "lead" guest about the septic system and say look it can only handle X people - any more and it could potentially break leading to very expensive repairs. People think you are being fussy they need to know there is a consequence.
.

The problem is that they will not care how much it will cost her to fix the septic unless she says very expensive repairs which will significantly affect the rates we have to charge you.

 

[Generic]

Everyone I know here in town has faced that issues this summer. We just had a family show up when the room was reserved for two. There is a two guest maximum in the room. We are limited by the state (same state as you) to a maximum of 16 guests. Over that and we become a hotel, with hotel rules.
We told the family to leave.
Others have been able to squeeze in the extra guests. You cannot. Sleeping in tents but using the bathroom in one cabin is not good. The more you allow the more the guests will push.
It's the hardest thing you'll do this year, but you have to. You need to regain your sanity and your equilibrium. Tell the trespassers, as they leave, you will not be able to accommodate all the extra people next year. You are sure they understand it is unfair to all the other guests who took two cabins to see your family pitching tents and essentially getting a free vacation for half the family.
Say you will be happy to reserve their 2 or 3 cabins right now for next year. But, you will ask them to leave, with no refunds, next year if they show up with more guests than are allowed.
Once you've told one family, the next one is easier. Not easy. But easier.
You have to protect your investment.
If they are able to sneak extra guests in, you may want to figure out how that is happening. Do you greet them and take them to the cabins? Do they stop to pick up a key? Perhaps you need a different system that puts you right at the car when they drive up. Maybe a booth right at the road? I know that's a lot of work, but so would be digging up the septic on a hot August day..

Thank you Morticia (i love your name!) - I've gotten the idea from other contracts I've reviewed that I will start making people list the exact guests who will be with them on the rental agreement. I'm going to have to confront the guests today because as I watched them yesterday, I'm almost positive they have extra people. Almost every who stays here is 'like family' because they have been coming for so long and I think that's part of the problem - they just seem to think they can take advantage and I 'won't mind'. Unfortunately, they have no clue how much i DO MIND relative to this issue. It's infuriating.
.

I think you also need to explain to the "lead" guest about the septic system and say look it can only handle X people - any more and it could potentially break leading to very expensive repairs. People think you are being fussy they need to know there is a consequence.
.

The problem is that they will not care how much it will cost her to fix the septic unless she says very expensive repairs which will significantly affect the rates we have to charge you.
.

I don't think that will work.... they don't understand the words "very expensive". They do understand... $10K if you break the septic system by overuse.
But I do agree with JCam, maybe it's time to look at a composting toilet to supplement the system. Uses a lot less water as well.

 

[InnTheWoods]

You may want to post a over capacity fee. For example...

You have reserved for 3 people.
The maximum capacity of your cabin is 4 people.
The extra charge (prepaid) for an extra person is $10 per night.
The extra charge (postpaid) for an extra person is $20 per night.
The extra charge (postpaid) for anyone over the 4 people is $200 per night.
Or version 2...
You have reserved for 3 people.
The maximum capacity of your cabin is 4 people.
The extra charge (prepaid) for an extra person is $10 per night.
Any person not listed on the reservation found on the property will be reported to the police for trespass. You will be escorted off the property, with no refund..

The problem with an over-capacity fee is that it implicitly says too many people is OK (i.e., you don't have a hard limit), it'll just cost a bit more.
If you really do have a hard limit, you have to enforce it -- if not in the immediate moment, then at least in the future by not letting them return.
.

See, in my mind, I would rather not argue, just set a fee that makes it financially impractical. At $100 PER NIGHT, I just don't think there are that many people who will take you up on the offer. But if they do, increase the fee to $200. At least over time you will bank the money for the septic system.
Or, set a hard limit, warning them that they will be refused and will still have to pay.
I hate arguing with people. I hit them in the wallet.
.

exactly what i'm leaning towards! but what i am going to do first is start using a rental agreement (which I haven't had to do before - I do have a liability waiver) in which they have to list each member of their party. THAT's IT!

 

[Jcam]

Everyone I know here in town has faced that issues this summer. We just had a family show up when the room was reserved for two. There is a two guest maximum in the room. We are limited by the state (same state as you) to a maximum of 16 guests. Over that and we become a hotel, with hotel rules.
We told the family to leave.
Others have been able to squeeze in the extra guests. You cannot. Sleeping in tents but using the bathroom in one cabin is not good. The more you allow the more the guests will push.
It's the hardest thing you'll do this year, but you have to. You need to regain your sanity and your equilibrium. Tell the trespassers, as they leave, you will not be able to accommodate all the extra people next year. You are sure they understand it is unfair to all the other guests who took two cabins to see your family pitching tents and essentially getting a free vacation for half the family.
Say you will be happy to reserve their 2 or 3 cabins right now for next year. But, you will ask them to leave, with no refunds, next year if they show up with more guests than are allowed.
Once you've told one family, the next one is easier. Not easy. But easier.
You have to protect your investment.
If they are able to sneak extra guests in, you may want to figure out how that is happening. Do you greet them and take them to the cabins? Do they stop to pick up a key? Perhaps you need a different system that puts you right at the car when they drive up. Maybe a booth right at the road? I know that's a lot of work, but so would be digging up the septic on a hot August day..

Thank you Morticia (i love your name!) - I've gotten the idea from other contracts I've reviewed that I will start making people list the exact guests who will be with them on the rental agreement. I'm going to have to confront the guests today because as I watched them yesterday, I'm almost positive they have extra people. Almost every who stays here is 'like family' because they have been coming for so long and I think that's part of the problem - they just seem to think they can take advantage and I 'won't mind'. Unfortunately, they have no clue how much i DO MIND relative to this issue. It's infuriating.
.

I think you also need to explain to the "lead" guest about the septic system and say look it can only handle X people - any more and it could potentially break leading to very expensive repairs. People think you are being fussy they need to know there is a consequence.
.

The problem is that they will not care how much it will cost her to fix the septic unless she says very expensive repairs which will significantly affect the rates we have to charge you.
.

I would be saying and "that will be £10,000" please be aware - very expensive means nothing to some people (as a context) you have to give them a hard terrifying figure!

 

[Morticia]

Somewhat related to how you are feeling - we knew we would run into difficulties taking over from another owner. We just didn't realize the guests would be so in our faces. It was a bit ugly at times sticking to the policies that were comfortable for us but uncomfortable to the guests who had 'trained' the previous owners to shut up and leave the guests to do what they wanted.
That included using the kitchen, demanding certain foods, getting their cars washed by the owner (I'm not joking).
It was hard the first two years until we cleared out the guests who didn't like the new rules. Plenty of others took their place who were perfectly ok with how we run the joint. We even got some back who had been tired of the nonsense.
So, if part of it is fear you'll lose business, you will. But, the other guests who see you stand up for yourself and for them, will appreciate their stay. People don't like uncertainty. They like to know there are rules and everyone has to follow them.

 

[user 26]

Oh ... septic! is it rustic enough to have composting toilets? I know nothing about these but I do understand an aging septic system. Guests don't understand why they can't just bring more people since they've rented a cabin. you have to explain the why to whomever makes the reservation. And i'm sorry to suggest that you need a plan to expand your system.
let us know what happens

 

[GoodScout]

Had one this morning.
Late check-in on last-minute booking. Dad made the reservation. We always, always start of with "number of people in the party" so we can match them to the right room. Two. Great. Room in Main House with Queen bed. Very affordable value. Late-check-in letter explained, went to bed. Heard them come in around 11. No problem.
Started serving breakfast and down the stairs come the couple .... with two children in tow. One around 8, the other 5. I just blinked.
"I'm so sorry I wasn't told you were a family of four or I would have put you in a larger room," I said, wondering how the hell four people managed to sleep in a small 18x15 room filled with a queen bed. My best guess from the evidence: They pulled the comforter from the empty room next door, spread it out on the floor, and had the kids sleep on the floor.
Mother gave me a look that was half apologetic, half not, and 95% "I'm really, really pissed at my husband right now."
I said nothing but charged them for one extra person and let it go. Made a note on their file for next time. This is the third time a guest from Quebec has done this. Do Canadians not think their children are "people" when I ask about number of people in their party?
Just wow.

 

[JimBoone]

Had one this morning.
Late check-in on last-minute booking. Dad made the reservation. We always, always start of with "number of people in the party" so we can match them to the right room. Two. Great. Room in Main House with Queen bed. Very affordable value. Late-check-in letter explained, went to bed. Heard them come in around 11. No problem.
Started serving breakfast and down the stairs come the couple .... with two children in tow. One around 8, the other 5. I just blinked.
"I'm so sorry I wasn't told you were a family of four or I would have put you in a larger room," I said, wondering how the hell four people managed to sleep in a small 18x15 room filled with a queen bed. My best guess from the evidence: They pulled the comforter from the empty room next door, spread it out on the floor, and had the kids sleep on the floor.
Mother gave me a look that was half apologetic, half not, and 95% "I'm really, really pissed at my husband right now."
I said nothing but charged them for one extra person and let it go. Made a note on their file for next time. This is the third time a guest from Quebec has done this. Do Canadians not think their children are "people" when I ask about number of people in their party?
Just wow..

We always, always start of with "number of people in the party"

People like to hear things or rationalize them to suit their desires. How many in your party, 2, meaning him plus 2 in his party. I now ask how many adults and how many children in the room, maybe that is clear or NOT depending on the guest.

 

[Generic]

Had one this morning.
Late check-in on last-minute booking. Dad made the reservation. We always, always start of with "number of people in the party" so we can match them to the right room. Two. Great. Room in Main House with Queen bed. Very affordable value. Late-check-in letter explained, went to bed. Heard them come in around 11. No problem.
Started serving breakfast and down the stairs come the couple .... with two children in tow. One around 8, the other 5. I just blinked.
"I'm so sorry I wasn't told you were a family of four or I would have put you in a larger room," I said, wondering how the hell four people managed to sleep in a small 18x15 room filled with a queen bed. My best guess from the evidence: They pulled the comforter from the empty room next door, spread it out on the floor, and had the kids sleep on the floor.
Mother gave me a look that was half apologetic, half not, and 95% "I'm really, really pissed at my husband right now."
I said nothing but charged them for one extra person and let it go. Made a note on their file for next time. This is the third time a guest from Quebec has done this. Do Canadians not think their children are "people" when I ask about number of people in their party?
Just wow..

He's just an *****.... not an example of the average person...

 

[user 26]

If most of your guests are city guests that use city/town water and services, they haven't got a clue about septic systems. I'm from the city and had to learn quick what it all meant. Until I had to deal with one, I really had no idea and probably would have thought 'okay, just charge them for a couple extra people'

 

[Jcam]

If most of your guests are city guests that use city/town water and services, they haven't got a clue about septic systems. I'm from the city and had to learn quick what it all meant. Until I had to deal with one, I really had no idea and probably would have thought 'okay, just charge them for a couple extra people'.

Ill be honest in the UK because most things are pretty close together unless you are right out in the highlands or Dartmoore there arn't many places that arn't on the mains - my only working knowledge comes from homebuilding shows and or reading about USA B&B's and the various problems with them caused in the main by guests. I do appreciate they work well if treated properly (ie not putting things you shouldn't down them) and having a big outside space for the water part to drain off and dry out properly - in the UK there just isn't the field space for that side of things to work it on a scale needed - its really only completely off the grid or super eco places that arn't. So I would strongly recommend for anyone with UK guests and a septic system that they explain a bit more about how it works to help prevent future problems

 

[TheBeachHouse]

Had one this morning.
Late check-in on last-minute booking. Dad made the reservation. We always, always start of with "number of people in the party" so we can match them to the right room. Two. Great. Room in Main House with Queen bed. Very affordable value. Late-check-in letter explained, went to bed. Heard them come in around 11. No problem.
Started serving breakfast and down the stairs come the couple .... with two children in tow. One around 8, the other 5. I just blinked.
"I'm so sorry I wasn't told you were a family of four or I would have put you in a larger room," I said, wondering how the hell four people managed to sleep in a small 18x15 room filled with a queen bed. My best guess from the evidence: They pulled the comforter from the empty room next door, spread it out on the floor, and had the kids sleep on the floor.
Mother gave me a look that was half apologetic, half not, and 95% "I'm really, really pissed at my husband right now."
I said nothing but charged them for one extra person and let it go. Made a note on their file for next time. This is the third time a guest from Quebec has done this. Do Canadians not think their children are "people" when I ask about number of people in their party?
Just wow..

We always, always start of with "number of people in the party"

People like to hear things or rationalize them to suit their desires. How many in your party, 2, meaning him plus 2 in his party. I now ask how many adults and how many children in the room, maybe that is clear or NOT depending on the guest.
.

Last night. Late reservation, late check in. Saw them this morning for the first time. Couple with a 6 year old and a baby. Great. One night. Sleep and creep. Eat and skeet.

 

[Morticia]

Had one this morning.
Late check-in on last-minute booking. Dad made the reservation. We always, always start of with "number of people in the party" so we can match them to the right room. Two. Great. Room in Main House with Queen bed. Very affordable value. Late-check-in letter explained, went to bed. Heard them come in around 11. No problem.
Started serving breakfast and down the stairs come the couple .... with two children in tow. One around 8, the other 5. I just blinked.
"I'm so sorry I wasn't told you were a family of four or I would have put you in a larger room," I said, wondering how the hell four people managed to sleep in a small 18x15 room filled with a queen bed. My best guess from the evidence: They pulled the comforter from the empty room next door, spread it out on the floor, and had the kids sleep on the floor.
Mother gave me a look that was half apologetic, half not, and 95% "I'm really, really pissed at my husband right now."
I said nothing but charged them for one extra person and let it go. Made a note on their file for next time. This is the third time a guest from Quebec has done this. Do Canadians not think their children are "people" when I ask about number of people in their party?
Just wow..

We always, always start of with "number of people in the party"

People like to hear things or rationalize them to suit their desires. How many in your party, 2, meaning him plus 2 in his party. I now ask how many adults and how many children in the room, maybe that is clear or NOT depending on the guest.
.

Last night. Late reservation, late check in. Saw them this morning for the first time. Couple with a 6 year old and a baby. Great. One night. Sleep and creep. Eat and skeet.
.

I'm beginning to wonder if we have to be more vigilant with late arrivals. This is a troubling trend.
I don't think I would hear the pitter patter of little feet as I used to when waiting for teens to come home.

 

[Lee2014]

Had one this morning.
Late check-in on last-minute booking. Dad made the reservation. We always, always start of with "number of people in the party" so we can match them to the right room. Two. Great. Room in Main House with Queen bed. Very affordable value. Late-check-in letter explained, went to bed. Heard them come in around 11. No problem.
Started serving breakfast and down the stairs come the couple .... with two children in tow. One around 8, the other 5. I just blinked.
"I'm so sorry I wasn't told you were a family of four or I would have put you in a larger room," I said, wondering how the hell four people managed to sleep in a small 18x15 room filled with a queen bed. My best guess from the evidence: They pulled the comforter from the empty room next door, spread it out on the floor, and had the kids sleep on the floor.
Mother gave me a look that was half apologetic, half not, and 95% "I'm really, really pissed at my husband right now."
I said nothing but charged them for one extra person and let it go. Made a note on their file for next time. This is the third time a guest from Quebec has done this. Do Canadians not think their children are "people" when I ask about number of people in their party?
Just wow..

We always, always start of with "number of people in the party"

People like to hear things or rationalize them to suit their desires. How many in your party, 2, meaning him plus 2 in his party. I now ask how many adults and how many children in the room, maybe that is clear or NOT depending on the guest.
.

Last night. Late reservation, late check in. Saw them this morning for the first time. Couple with a 6 year old and a baby. Great. One night. Sleep and creep. Eat and skeet.
.

I'm beginning to wonder if we have to be more vigilant with late arrivals. This is a troubling trend.
I don't think I would hear the pitter patter of little feet as I used to when waiting for teens to come home.
.

That is one reason we have someone to greet each and every guest.

 

[TheBeachHouse]

Had one this morning.
Late check-in on last-minute booking. Dad made the reservation. We always, always start of with "number of people in the party" so we can match them to the right room. Two. Great. Room in Main House with Queen bed. Very affordable value. Late-check-in letter explained, went to bed. Heard them come in around 11. No problem.
Started serving breakfast and down the stairs come the couple .... with two children in tow. One around 8, the other 5. I just blinked.
"I'm so sorry I wasn't told you were a family of four or I would have put you in a larger room," I said, wondering how the hell four people managed to sleep in a small 18x15 room filled with a queen bed. My best guess from the evidence: They pulled the comforter from the empty room next door, spread it out on the floor, and had the kids sleep on the floor.
Mother gave me a look that was half apologetic, half not, and 95% "I'm really, really pissed at my husband right now."
I said nothing but charged them for one extra person and let it go. Made a note on their file for next time. This is the third time a guest from Quebec has done this. Do Canadians not think their children are "people" when I ask about number of people in their party?
Just wow..

We always, always start of with "number of people in the party"

People like to hear things or rationalize them to suit their desires. How many in your party, 2, meaning him plus 2 in his party. I now ask how many adults and how many children in the room, maybe that is clear or NOT depending on the guest.
.

Last night. Late reservation, late check in. Saw them this morning for the first time. Couple with a 6 year old and a baby. Great. One night. Sleep and creep. Eat and skeet.
.

I'm beginning to wonder if we have to be more vigilant with late arrivals. This is a troubling trend.
I don't think I would hear the pitter patter of little feet as I used to when waiting for teens to come home.
.

That is one reason we have someone to greet each and every guest.
.

That is one reason we have someone to greet each and every guest.

I wish we could do that too. But I can't be awake 24/7. And even if we had greeted them, we would not have tossed a family of 4 outside at midnight. We just can't do that.

 

[Anon Inn]

Had one this morning.
Late check-in on last-minute booking. Dad made the reservation. We always, always start of with "number of people in the party" so we can match them to the right room. Two. Great. Room in Main House with Queen bed. Very affordable value. Late-check-in letter explained, went to bed. Heard them come in around 11. No problem.
Started serving breakfast and down the stairs come the couple .... with two children in tow. One around 8, the other 5. I just blinked.
"I'm so sorry I wasn't told you were a family of four or I would have put you in a larger room," I said, wondering how the hell four people managed to sleep in a small 18x15 room filled with a queen bed. My best guess from the evidence: They pulled the comforter from the empty room next door, spread it out on the floor, and had the kids sleep on the floor.
Mother gave me a look that was half apologetic, half not, and 95% "I'm really, really pissed at my husband right now."
I said nothing but charged them for one extra person and let it go. Made a note on their file for next time. This is the third time a guest from Quebec has done this. Do Canadians not think their children are "people" when I ask about number of people in their party?
Just wow..

We always, always start of with "number of people in the party"

People like to hear things or rationalize them to suit their desires. How many in your party, 2, meaning him plus 2 in his party. I now ask how many adults and how many children in the room, maybe that is clear or NOT depending on the guest.
.

Last night. Late reservation, late check in. Saw them this morning for the first time. Couple with a 6 year old and a baby. Great. One night. Sleep and creep. Eat and skeet.
.

I'm beginning to wonder if we have to be more vigilant with late arrivals. This is a troubling trend.
I don't think I would hear the pitter patter of little feet as I used to when waiting for teens to come home.
.

That is one reason we have someone to greet each and every guest.
.

That is one reason we have someone to greet each and every guest.

I wish we could do that too. But I can't be awake 24/7. And even if we had greeted them, we would not have tossed a family of 4 outside at midnight. We just can't do that.
.

Periodically it comes up on this forum that guests will just go into and use the facilities in another unlocked guest room. The consensus over time seems to be to keep the unused rooms locked - just to prevent this kind of thing.
Having said that, and due to where we live, that we have a reception desk right by the front door, and that an innkeeper is ALWAYS present when guests are in residence - I didn't even have locks on the guestroom doors for the first 9 years. Amazingly it was never an issue. We do have them now, but I still don't always remember to ask for the key on departure - so several guests have mailed them back - all very promptly.
But now I am SURE no one has been in an empty room!
Before innkeeping, I rarely locked the front door. I started after our first guest made a mention in her blog that the front door wasn't locked. She was trying to be charming about the area, small population and close knit community, but that comment on the internet, (this was before FB) changed that habit immediately!

 

[Lee2014]

Had one this morning.
Late check-in on last-minute booking. Dad made the reservation. We always, always start of with "number of people in the party" so we can match them to the right room. Two. Great. Room in Main House with Queen bed. Very affordable value. Late-check-in letter explained, went to bed. Heard them come in around 11. No problem.
Started serving breakfast and down the stairs come the couple .... with two children in tow. One around 8, the other 5. I just blinked.
"I'm so sorry I wasn't told you were a family of four or I would have put you in a larger room," I said, wondering how the hell four people managed to sleep in a small 18x15 room filled with a queen bed. My best guess from the evidence: They pulled the comforter from the empty room next door, spread it out on the floor, and had the kids sleep on the floor.
Mother gave me a look that was half apologetic, half not, and 95% "I'm really, really pissed at my husband right now."
I said nothing but charged them for one extra person and let it go. Made a note on their file for next time. This is the third time a guest from Quebec has done this. Do Canadians not think their children are "people" when I ask about number of people in their party?
Just wow..

We always, always start of with "number of people in the party"

People like to hear things or rationalize them to suit their desires. How many in your party, 2, meaning him plus 2 in his party. I now ask how many adults and how many children in the room, maybe that is clear or NOT depending on the guest.
.

Last night. Late reservation, late check in. Saw them this morning for the first time. Couple with a 6 year old and a baby. Great. One night. Sleep and creep. Eat and skeet.
.

I'm beginning to wonder if we have to be more vigilant with late arrivals. This is a troubling trend.
I don't think I would hear the pitter patter of little feet as I used to when waiting for teens to come home.
.

That is one reason we have someone to greet each and every guest.
.

That is one reason we have someone to greet each and every guest.

I wish we could do that too. But I can't be awake 24/7. And even if we had greeted them, we would not have tossed a family of 4 outside at midnight. We just can't do that.
.

That is one reason we have someone to greet each and every guest.

I wish we could do that too. But I can't be awake 24/7. And even if we had greeted them, we would not have tossed a family of 4 outside at midnight. We just can't do that.

I know. We had it worked out that one went to bed early while the other stayed up, etc. Then the one got up early while the other slept in. But when the reviews says how wonderful to be greeted by innkeeper at midnight etc, they would know this is not the place for them to come late for a self check in and haul in people not counted. We had two guests try it...one was in our carriage house and didn't realize that the place was in an inn's backyard and the other was the only one we ever kicked out due to other issues.