Just a great Big Thank You!

[gillumhouse]

Not sure why you all are even mentioning outlets, he is building a new structure, code requires outlets on every wall, and most people put them every 4 or 5 feet apart which is standard drill. So most walls have two or three. He is building a NEW structure, not remodeling a historic home. All new homes are built with electronics in mind..

Because it is like reno budgets - no matter how much you think is enough, it isn't. By pointing out how many items outlets are need for, he will know to make each outlet a quad instead of a dual. Put outlets where you never thought one would be needed - because it will be. Yes, he will be building but who would think about how many things will be going into those outlets in a B & B guestroom or office?

 

[Samster]

Not sure why you all are even mentioning outlets, he is building a new structure, code requires outlets on every wall, and most people put them every 4 or 5 feet apart which is standard drill. So most walls have two or three. He is building a NEW structure, not remodeling a historic home. All new homes are built with electronics in mind..

Because it is like reno budgets - no matter how much you think is enough, it isn't. By pointing out how many items outlets are need for, he will know to make each outlet a quad instead of a dual. Put outlets where you never thought one would be needed - because it will be. Yes, he will be building but who would think about how many things will be going into those outlets in a B & B guestroom or office?
.

More importantly, the circuit breaker box must be adequate to sustain all the outlets and so forth. Code will dictate the minimum. The box should be large enough to allow for expansion as well.
My thought was that he was looking more for general design suggestions and that kind of thing.

 

[gillumhouse]

Not sure why you all are even mentioning outlets, he is building a new structure, code requires outlets on every wall, and most people put them every 4 or 5 feet apart which is standard drill. So most walls have two or three. He is building a NEW structure, not remodeling a historic home. All new homes are built with electronics in mind..

Because it is like reno budgets - no matter how much you think is enough, it isn't. By pointing out how many items outlets are need for, he will know to make each outlet a quad instead of a dual. Put outlets where you never thought one would be needed - because it will be. Yes, he will be building but who would think about how many things will be going into those outlets in a B & B guestroom or office?
.

More importantly, the circuit breaker box must be adequate to sustain all the outlets and so forth. Code will dictate the minimum. The box should be large enough to allow for expansion as well.
My thought was that he was looking more for general design suggestions and that kind of thing.
.

You are probably right on the general design being the original thought, but we are here to tell about things like outlets and breaker boxes that no one else would have thought about. Just as the refrigerator that DH was asking "don't you think that is bigger than we need?" when I bought it before B & B, he now complains is too small. When doing the design, space needs to be designed for the largest possible refrigerator, washer, dryer, at least 2 ovens....... It is a chance to have the space that we can only wish for designed into the structure. I cannot fit a larger of any of the above mentioned appliances than I have - no space.

 

[Morticia]

Not sure why you all are even mentioning outlets, he is building a new structure, code requires outlets on every wall, and most people put them every 4 or 5 feet apart which is standard drill. So most walls have two or three. He is building a NEW structure, not remodeling a historic home. All new homes are built with electronics in mind..

Not sure why you all are even mentioning outlets, he is building a new structure, code requires outlets on every wall, and most people put them every 4 or 5 feet apart which is standard drill. So most walls have two or three. He is building a NEW structure, not remodeling a historic home. All new homes are built with electronics in mind.

He may want to put in 2- 4 slot outlets near the bed, rather than 2- 2 slots. Just stuff to think about. Even doing a remodel he would (probably) be required to be up to code, but not all electricians GET how many outlets and WHERE they should be placed. I know you and I are lucky to have guys who do get it, but some electricians are, 'Why would you need an outlet THERE? What's wrong with this one HERE?'
Oh, yes, he also wants a switched outlet to turn on multiple lights in the room from the doorway. Rather than just a single overhead light. Ambiance. And for decorating with 'candles' for Christmas.

 

[gillumhouse]

Not sure why you all are even mentioning outlets, he is building a new structure, code requires outlets on every wall, and most people put them every 4 or 5 feet apart which is standard drill. So most walls have two or three. He is building a NEW structure, not remodeling a historic home. All new homes are built with electronics in mind..

Not sure why you all are even mentioning outlets, he is building a new structure, code requires outlets on every wall, and most people put them every 4 or 5 feet apart which is standard drill. So most walls have two or three. He is building a NEW structure, not remodeling a historic home. All new homes are built with electronics in mind.

He may want to put in 2- 4 slot outlets near the bed, rather than 2- 2 slots. Just stuff to think about. Even doing a remodel he would (probably) be required to be up to code, but not all electricians GET how many outlets and WHERE they should be placed. I know you and I are lucky to have guys who do get it, but some electricians are, 'Why would you need an outlet THERE? What's wrong with this one HERE?'
Oh, yes, he also wants a switched outlet to turn on multiple lights in the room from the doorway. Rather than just a single overhead light. Ambiance. And for decorating with 'candles' for Christmas.
.

And a 2-way switch on the stairs. Plus, from stays in hotels, I turn on the switch at the door when I come in and everything is great - until I get into bed and have to get back up to turn off that darned switch - why not a 2-way switch with the second switch at the bedside? Easier than fumbling for a lamp switch if getting up in the night also. All sorts of neat ideas come from stirring the pot with a question!

 

[YellowSocks]

Not sure why you all are even mentioning outlets, he is building a new structure, code requires outlets on every wall, and most people put them every 4 or 5 feet apart which is standard drill. So most walls have two or three. He is building a NEW structure, not remodeling a historic home. All new homes are built with electronics in mind..

Not sure why you all are even mentioning outlets, he is building a new structure, code requires outlets on every wall, and most people put them every 4 or 5 feet apart which is standard drill. So most walls have two or three. He is building a NEW structure, not remodeling a historic home. All new homes are built with electronics in mind.

Because code's not enough for a B&B. In the rooms we gutted I put outlets everywhere... contractors kept moaning and groaning, whaddaya want all them for? And I still have surge protectors to provide more slots!
=)
Kk.

 

[Barliman]

Fortunately, we can have "whole house" surge protection installed. That will protect from lightning strikes. I realize you are talking about the ability to have 6 or 8 more plug-ins from a strip but in an office situation, I usually have a full blown battery back up. In fact, as I type this, I have 3 APC's weighing about 40 lbs. each, running 7 high end computers. I agree, though, your insite into the B&B business is saying "code is not enough"....point well taken and noted. Generally, the electrical and lighting plan(s) are one of the last to be developed. Got to get the footprint layed out first. Obviously, guest's electronic needs have to be taken into consideration and I thank you for this observation. I like the "mood" lighting idea. Tell you what.....when you all get tired of telling me new ideas....(when this thread cools down heheheh) I will summerize and post a condensed design features list. Then you can start all over and tell me what I missed.

 

[Copperhead]

Welcome Barliman! You have gotten most of my list already but I have a couple of things to have you ponder over as well.
In the past few years, there has been a new wave for going 'GREEN'. If I was designing today I would look into designing my B&B with to be as environmental friendly as possible - some things would be based on location so I will just start a brief list: solar panels or a windmill for electricity, inline water heaters, A/C & heat with individual controls....
Another trend I find is that there is a growing number of travelers looking for a cottage type of rental. If I could, I would add one on my property - I have had that many inquiries! While some people like staying in the 'big old house' type B&B, others enjoy having a little distance with all the extras a B&B provides.
Now that's my 2 cents.

 

[user 26]

i am assuming new construction will have to be ada compliant ... especially in the bathrooms
although i did not have a wheelchair ramp, i did have a few guests each year who came with those motorized chairs. i had to run a power cord out the front door and along the porch for them to recharge. (old house - no exterior outlets) we had a LOT of elder guests ... some jogged up to the lighthouse and went kayaking ... some strolled around ... some used canes, walkers and chairs.
one guest with the motorized chair has muscular distrophy. he is in his 30's, very strong in the arms and went kayaking. but he depends on his chair.

 

[egoodell]

i am assuming new construction will have to be ada compliant ... especially in the bathrooms
although i did not have a wheelchair ramp, i did have a few guests each year who came with those motorized chairs. i had to run a power cord out the front door and along the porch for them to recharge. (old house - no exterior outlets) we had a LOT of elder guests ... some jogged up to the lighthouse and went kayaking ... some strolled around ... some used canes, walkers and chairs.
one guest with the motorized chair has muscular distrophy. he is in his 30's, very strong in the arms and went kayaking. but he depends on his chair..

New constuction here in Charlottesville va does not require ADA compliant unless you have over 5 rooms. I can't recall how many rooms it is to have to do so. It is different in different areas.
Riki

 

[EmptyNest]

i am assuming new construction will have to be ada compliant ... especially in the bathrooms
although i did not have a wheelchair ramp, i did have a few guests each year who came with those motorized chairs. i had to run a power cord out the front door and along the porch for them to recharge. (old house - no exterior outlets) we had a LOT of elder guests ... some jogged up to the lighthouse and went kayaking ... some strolled around ... some used canes, walkers and chairs.
one guest with the motorized chair has muscular distrophy. he is in his 30's, very strong in the arms and went kayaking. but he depends on his chair..

New constuction here in Charlottesville va does not require ADA compliant unless you have over 5 rooms. I can't recall how many rooms it is to have to do so. It is different in different areas.
Riki
.

ADA is not necessary for 4 rooms.
However, just an FYI.... in Virginia, if a new place tries to open as a B&B with 6 or more guest rooms in a single facility/home/building, or an existing B&B tries to add another guest room to a single facility/home/building, and the total guest rooms will be over 5 - they will be considered under the same rules as a hotel and are required to have sprinkler system.

 

[egoodell]

i am assuming new construction will have to be ada compliant ... especially in the bathrooms
although i did not have a wheelchair ramp, i did have a few guests each year who came with those motorized chairs. i had to run a power cord out the front door and along the porch for them to recharge. (old house - no exterior outlets) we had a LOT of elder guests ... some jogged up to the lighthouse and went kayaking ... some strolled around ... some used canes, walkers and chairs.
one guest with the motorized chair has muscular distrophy. he is in his 30's, very strong in the arms and went kayaking. but he depends on his chair..

New constuction here in Charlottesville va does not require ADA compliant unless you have over 5 rooms. I can't recall how many rooms it is to have to do so. It is different in different areas.
Riki
.

ADA is not necessary for 4 rooms.
However, just an FYI.... in Virginia, if a new place tries to open as a B&B with 6 or more guest rooms in a single facility/home/building, or an existing B&B tries to add another guest room to a single facility/home/building, and the total guest rooms will be over 5 - they will be considered under the same rules as a hotel and are required to have sprinkler system.
.

**phew** we are still safe then. We have to get our blueprint out to the county soon before this gets changed. We are only allowed 5 rooms but have to get the other wing approved before they change that sprinkler rule. 6 or more is too close for comfort. Considering what they put us through to get our sign up ON OUR OWN PROPERTY I'm dreading what we are up for.
Riki

 

[swirt]

Anything more I should be thinking about?

Yep. How on Earth are you ever going to pay for all this and recover the costs? The margin for most B&Bs are not that large. 2 viking ovens one viking stove and a viking fridge? ... for 5 guest rooms.....you literally could go 3 or more years before the B&B even begins to pay the cost of those puppies.
There is a caveat to building a new huge, has everything B&B....and that is that very likely you will sell it in under 10 years (its just the typical timeline for a B&B) If you overbuild it, you will never be able to sell it because it is too big to be just a house, and too expensive to be a B&B... the income has to balance the expense or the bank will never finance the purchase.

 

[gillumhouse]

ADA guestroom s/b on first floor and suggest a roll-in shower for that bathroom. Actually, if you are building from scratch AND are on city water (meaning not a cistern, well, or pond that would require a storage tank), you would probably be smart to install the sprinkler system. It is when you try to retro-fit an old house that it REALLY gets interesting (and ugly with all those pipes showing). A communication system between the owner's quarters and the office and the kitchen might also be a thought. We use the shout system in this house when no guests in-house and the Kathleen get up and go find out what he wants when guests are here (gets old fast!).

 

[gillumhouse]

Anything more I should be thinking about?

Yep. How on Earth are you ever going to pay for all this and recover the costs? The margin for most B&Bs are not that large. 2 viking ovens one viking stove and a viking fridge? ... for 5 guest rooms.....you literally could go 3 or more years before the B&B even begins to pay the cost of those puppies.
There is a caveat to building a new huge, has everything B&B....and that is that very likely you will sell it in under 10 years (its just the typical timeline for a B&B) If you overbuild it, you will never be able to sell it because it is too big to be just a house, and too expensive to be a B&B... the income has to balance the expense or the bank will never finance the purchase..

That is why we call it the dream B & B.

 

[swirt]

ADA guestroom s/b on first floor and suggest a roll-in shower for that bathroom. Actually, if you are building from scratch AND are on city water (meaning not a cistern, well, or pond that would require a storage tank), you would probably be smart to install the sprinkler system. It is when you try to retro-fit an old house that it REALLY gets interesting (and ugly with all those pipes showing). A communication system between the owner's quarters and the office and the kitchen might also be a thought. We use the shout system in this house when no guests in-house and the Kathleen get up and go find out what he wants when guests are here (gets old fast!)..

Hmm That raises an interesting question for the insurance people. If you install sprinklers, your fire insurance should go down. But I wonder if your water damage insurance goes up... think of the damage that would be caused by a false alarm.

 

[gillumhouse]

ADA guestroom s/b on first floor and suggest a roll-in shower for that bathroom. Actually, if you are building from scratch AND are on city water (meaning not a cistern, well, or pond that would require a storage tank), you would probably be smart to install the sprinkler system. It is when you try to retro-fit an old house that it REALLY gets interesting (and ugly with all those pipes showing). A communication system between the owner's quarters and the office and the kitchen might also be a thought. We use the shout system in this house when no guests in-house and the Kathleen get up and go find out what he wants when guests are here (gets old fast!)..

Hmm That raises an interesting question for the insurance people. If you install sprinklers, your fire insurance should go down. But I wonder if your water damage insurance goes up... think of the damage that would be caused by a false alarm.

.

Having dealt with the brilliant bureaucrat Fire Marshal who stated that our insurance rates would go down it we installed that sprinklers he was requiring us to install, thus paying for themselves in a few years, I asked my agent with James Wolf about premium reduction for having sprinklers - the answer was they would say thank you and that was it. No reduction in premium, but thank you because they would not have to rebuild the house. A member of the Fire Commission (the 11 member commission who is the boss of the Fire Marshal - his job security as a majority would have to agree to oust the political appointment) told me that sprinklers are to save property, not lives.

 

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

Anything more I should be thinking about?

Yep. How on Earth are you ever going to pay for all this and recover the costs? The margin for most B&Bs are not that large. 2 viking ovens one viking stove and a viking fridge? ... for 5 guest rooms.....you literally could go 3 or more years before the B&B even begins to pay the cost of those puppies.
There is a caveat to building a new huge, has everything B&B....and that is that very likely you will sell it in under 10 years (its just the typical timeline for a B&B) If you overbuild it, you will never be able to sell it because it is too big to be just a house, and too expensive to be a B&B... the income has to balance the expense or the bank will never finance the purchase..

Anything more I should be thinking about?

Yep. How on Earth are you ever going to pay for all this and recover the costs? The margin for most B&Bs are not that large. 2 viking ovens one viking stove and a viking fridge? ... for 5 guest rooms.....you literally could go 3 or more years before the B&B even begins to pay the cost of those puppies.
There is a caveat to building a new huge, has everything B&B....and that is that very likely you will sell it in under 10 years (its just the typical timeline for a B&B) If you overbuild it, you will never be able to sell it because it is too big to be just a house, and too expensive to be a B&B... the income has to balance the expense or the bank will never finance the purchase.

You mean like DH on his hands and knees trying to sew up the edge of an area rug in a guest room that guests tore off dragging their heavy suitcases? You never saw such an angry man as he ran around the house accusing me of causing grievant harm because we don't have a thimble!
These are the things that can suck you dry - oh sure just go right out and buy another large rug for that room. If we did that we would starve. It is a fine line between what gets the reno or repurchase and what has to wait. How much wear and tear is acceptable. We just can't have everything perfect all the time.
That is where the new building will come in and quickly get dinged and damaged and it will hurt. After all the hard work and expense.
I have no idea why I am typing this, other than to say - you can't have it all in a B&B, plenty of things need to come later or you will never ever recoup your money.

 

[YellowSocks]

Sound system throughout

why?

Go as “green” as possible

The advantage of this is lower operating costs, as well.

large closet w/ built in ironing board

I don't know that it needs to be large, or have the ironing board built in. The closet needs to hold iron, ironing board, spare pillows, two robes, a luggage rack, and as many hanging clothes as someone might pack... I have 6-10 hangers, but that's more than I've ever seen in other B&B's. The iron can lean on the wall or you can get one of those racks that holds it up off the floor with the iron on top.
One of my new closets is about 2' wide... plenty. It's quite deep, though, so I have storage tubs in there with spare linens for the room. It would be better to have some kind of doors and shelves back there, but it was too hard to add them and keep it skinny.

Large Shower w/ seat

We have two seats I got brand new from yard sales. I say on my website (at least, I think I do) that they are available upon request. Personally, I'd rather have a tub than a shower seat. Others are the opposite.

Plenty of shelf spaces for shave kits, curling irons, contract lens solution, brushes, etc.

Absolutely! And shelves in the shower/tubs, too.

Whirlpool tub?

Yes!!!! I didn't think I could afford to put them in, and we're not targeting the romance niche... I wish I had put one on the third floor, the only tub I have that's not a whirlpool. That room would be just that much nicer.

Radiant tile floor heating?

It's not that much more to add while installing your tile, and it adds a real "wow" factor. BUT, make sure you get the simple control (on/off, up/down) not the complicated digital one (argh! great contractor, but why didn't he ask me first??)

Personal shower heads

Another one I feel strongly about and miss terribly when I travel!

Enough room and seating for all guests (8)

If you have an outdoor screen patio that seats all, that's generally enough. I rarely have them all sitting around indoors.

Fireplace and some wood storage

If you have a gas FP, you won't have wood storage and mess (not to mention the cost and/or work involved in procuring the wood).

Oval table for 10

Mine's oval (can be round without the leaves) but I wish it were a long rectangle. It's too wide... very difficult to pass something across, and it takes up too much space.

May have to fit grand piano in this area

wow.

Some guest storage for bikes, skateboards, skis, etc.

Are you in a ski area?

(2) Garages, room for 2 cars in ea. Garage, 1 car per guest

Unless you're in a very classy place (or a big city) most guests will not be expecting garage parking. It is a wonderful amenity to offer, though... we have allowed guests to use our garage for their motorcycles (both racing and vintage), bikes (biking across the state), and fancy cars.

Additional space outside /Innkeeper’s private entrance/private 2 car garage

Just how much land do you have for this venture? Parking for six cars in garages, plus outdoor spaces... that would take most of my back yard to procure.

Outside seating on individual porches

Would this be for every room? Wow. I was wondering if outdoor entrances means more people sneaking their pet in. Of course, if you're pet friendly then that won't matter.

May have to include our regular design office here

Your reception area needs to be large enough for 1) a cc machine, 2) a flat place to sign. Many B&B's use their entry hall. I do it in our library, which is also public space. All my office stuff is downstairs and out of sight (and believe me, that's a very good thing!!)

Cleaning cart and supplies

Only works if you're on one level. Otherwise you're hauling stuff up and down. Which reminds me... you might want to include some kind of cleaning closet near the guest rooms. Make sure it LOCKS.

Chef’s Working Kitchen:

wow.
Are you in a state that requires a commercial kitchen? Are you going to be preparing dinners? If you want to do dinners then you'll want to have a larger dining room... 10 is nice, but 12-20 is better for attracting groups.
If you don't need a commercial kitchen, and aren't preparing catered dinners, and are usually making breakfast for no more than 8, then 1) it doesn't need to be that big (Bree's is tiny and they serve a lot more!), and 2) it doesn't have to be a "show place"... make a swinging (lockable) door and keep the guests out.
OTOH, if you've got the budget and love cooking... wow!

Anything more I should be thinking about?

zoning?
bank robbing?
If you've got the budget for all that, will you also be hiring staff? If so, you'll need a place to post those employee posters, and for them to take breaks, and a potty they can use.
I'm a firm believer in dreaming big... I made up a dream list even though I was working with a tiny budget. As we shopped, and then renovated, having that list helped me to make choices about the best house to pick, and where to put our money. It is a LOT cheaper to put in heated tile flooring if you're doing it while under construction than to try and add it later!
One thing I did that I'm glad I did... every room has some fun touches, and every room has a rope light. It started because my first contractor working on my first bathroom had to put in a step to drain the toilet. (The last contractor would have used a jack hammer instead.) Since there's a step in the middle of the bathroom I insisted on lighting it... we put a rope light along the bottom. This was so cool we added a rope light going up the steps to the third floor guest room (the steps are within the room). Then we added to bathrooms on the second floor... each of them has light behind the crown moulding (poor contractor... but he figured out how to do it in the end!). It is super cool!
Good luck! You're going to have a gorgeous B&B!!
=)
Kk.

 

[Morticia]

Can I move in now? I haven't had a garage in over 10 years. I don't have any of those amenities in my own bedroom...