Credit cards and criminals!

[user 26]

Are you saying you don't have addresses for guests on the advice of your booking agent? I have never heard of this ... always get the address, the mailing address zip code always must match. How do you know these are their cards? I stayed at a hotel recently and had to show my license which they took a copy of. This keeps happening.
Amazed to read this from you, Audrey ... who/what is the booking agent? I believe they are way wrong. Why would you get more bookings by not asking for home address? This makes me uncomfortable because why would guests not want to give this info?
"The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses."

 

[JimBoone]

Did you get signatures of the sale? Did you use a booking system that has them check to say they agree to the booking terms?

If you say yes to these then you should have contested the chargeback. You do know you have the right to provide documentation proving you are deserving of the charge?

I can not say that you will always win but if you do not try the answer will always be no..

Do you honestly think that the price of the room determines whether this type of fraud will happen? I try to keep competitive but in this area it is hard to get more than $65. night off season. Even in season I only find higher rates possible during a Convention. Very much interested in your opinion.
For a while, I did look up their names on Facebook and when I could match the address, their picture popped up. A think a picture says a 1000 words.
Maybe I should go back to doing that. The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.
.

I don't believe that high prices alone will eliminate all problems, however I do believe that there is a sweet spot high enough in pricing that eliminates the riff raff looking for the cheapest place and below the pricing of the super classy places. If I get too many guests that I consider less desirable, then that's a signal that it is time to nudge the price higher.
Seems like your card processor should represent you in these battles, perhaps it is time to look into a different card processing company.

 

[Generic]

Are you processing the card in hand? Do you process with the chip?

 

[Lee2014]

As it was said before, raise your room rates and most of your problems will disappear. Why? Your price attracts a certain set of people. As the saying goes, "you get what you pay for" or changed for innkeepers, "you get what you charge." That's my tough love for you..

Well I appreciate your thoughts.
I tried to be in line with my competition and did get a lot of bookings. If I put the rates up
will people come if they can book elsewhere for less?
.

Well I appreciate your thoughts.
I tried to be in line with my competition and did get a lot of bookings. If I put the rates up
will people come if they can book elsewhere for less?

Yes! They will! With our overhead and location we can't do a deep dive down like others can for winter rates. Last winter we were the second highest place in town. Many more luxurious and more amenities places were cheaper than us, but we still had guests. Different time we were full and the others had their vacancy signs out.
A book I read about having a photography business said, Don't check what other photographers in your area are charging. Decide what you need to cover costs, a buffer zone, and your profit. If you are a good photographer people will pay what you charge…. That's being said, I kept on eye on our neighboring inns. I count cars in their parking lots, check availability and prices on the sites, etc. I learned that from my grandma. When she had the restaurant she would drive around to the other restaurants and if they had more cars out front than hers, she would come back and make employees move their vehicles to the front parking lot.

 

[Audrey Forrest]

Are you processing the card in hand? Do you process with the chip?.

No I process the card as it is detailed on the booking agency site. I dont ask for the physical card when they get here.

 

[Audrey Forrest]

Are you saying you don't have addresses for guests on the advice of your booking agent? I have never heard of this ... always get the address, the mailing address zip code always must match. How do you know these are their cards? I stayed at a hotel recently and had to show my license which they took a copy of. This keeps happening.
Amazed to read this from you, Audrey ... who/what is the booking agent? I believe they are way wrong. Why would you get more bookings by not asking for home address? This makes me uncomfortable because why would guests not want to give this info?
"The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.".

The booking agent is Booking.com and they say that when guests dont have to fill in a lot of info. like their addresses,
we get more bookings. It is true because I did get more. They do give their credit card info. and our processor checks it pretty good with their cvc code so a number of them were rejected,
but a lot were accepted. One was definitely fraudulent and they caught that twice!

 

[Generic]

Are you processing the card in hand? Do you process with the chip?.

No I process the card as it is detailed on the booking agency site. I dont ask for the physical card when they get here.
.

And that's the reason it is so easy for them to get away with it. Process an auth only and require that they present the card in person and have them sign. The chip proves that the card was physically there.
I had a lot of fraud via BK, when they put a notice that the card must be presented at check-in they all disappeared. Around here, it's hard to use a card fraudulently because it's all chip & pin and even if it is chip & signature, the card going into the machine authenticates the card, proves it was there, unlike the swipe.
You can still legally prosecute them in small claims court, because the exchange of goods happened in your jurisdiction.

 

[Audrey Forrest]

Are you processing the card in hand? Do you process with the chip?.

No I process the card as it is detailed on the booking agency site. I dont ask for the physical card when they get here.
.

And that's the reason it is so easy for them to get away with it. Process an auth only and require that they present the card in person and have them sign. The chip proves that the card was physically there.
I had a lot of fraud via BK, when they put a notice that the card must be presented at check-in they all disappeared. Around here, it's hard to use a card fraudulently because it's all chip & pin and even if it is chip & signature, the card going into the machine authenticates the card, proves it was there, unlike the swipe.
You can still legally prosecute them in small claims court, because the exchange of goods happened in your jurisdiction.
.

If I dont actually charge their card they could end up as a no show, and I would have blocked the rooms. I could try it though but I dont think my processor does authorizations, they simply put through the charge.
Its all getting so complicated.
I know I could file Small Claims but that only means I'd get a
Judgement and not necessarily be able to collect on it!
Thanks for your input.

 

[Jcam]

As it was said before, raise your room rates and most of your problems will disappear. Why? Your price attracts a certain set of people. As the saying goes, "you get what you pay for" or changed for innkeepers, "you get what you charge." That's my tough love for you..

Well I appreciate your thoughts.
I tried to be in line with my competition and did get a lot of bookings. If I put the rates up
will people come if they can book elsewhere for less?
.

Well I appreciate your thoughts.
I tried to be in line with my competition and did get a lot of bookings. If I put the rates up
will people come if they can book elsewhere for less?

Yes! They will! With our overhead and location we can't do a deep dive down like others can for winter rates. Last winter we were the second highest place in town. Many more luxurious and more amenities places were cheaper than us, but we still had guests. Different time we were full and the others had their vacancy signs out.
A book I read about having a photography business said, Don't check what other photographers in your area are charging. Decide what you need to cover costs, a buffer zone, and your profit. If you are a good photographer people will pay what you charge…. That's being said, I kept on eye on our neighboring inns. I count cars in their parking lots, check availability and prices on the sites, etc. I learned that from my grandma. When she had the restaurant she would drive around to the other restaurants and if they had more cars out front than hers, she would come back and make employees move their vehicles to the front parking lot.
.

my godmother used to do this with her restaurant - not busy ring round to get friends sat in the window!

 

[Generic]

Are you processing the card in hand? Do you process with the chip?.

No I process the card as it is detailed on the booking agency site. I dont ask for the physical card when they get here.
.

And that's the reason it is so easy for them to get away with it. Process an auth only and require that they present the card in person and have them sign. The chip proves that the card was physically there.
I had a lot of fraud via BK, when they put a notice that the card must be presented at check-in they all disappeared. Around here, it's hard to use a card fraudulently because it's all chip & pin and even if it is chip & signature, the card going into the machine authenticates the card, proves it was there, unlike the swipe.
You can still legally prosecute them in small claims court, because the exchange of goods happened in your jurisdiction.
.

If I dont actually charge their card they could end up as a no show, and I would have blocked the rooms. I could try it though but I dont think my processor does authorizations, they simply put through the charge.
Its all getting so complicated.
I know I could file Small Claims but that only means I'd get a
Judgement and not necessarily be able to collect on it!
Thanks for your input.
.

The thing about processing without a card is that it has all the risks. Ask your processor on how to minimize the risks.

 

[JimBoone]

Are you processing the card in hand? Do you process with the chip?.

No I process the card as it is detailed on the booking agency site. I dont ask for the physical card when they get here.
.

And that's the reason it is so easy for them to get away with it. Process an auth only and require that they present the card in person and have them sign. The chip proves that the card was physically there.
I had a lot of fraud via BK, when they put a notice that the card must be presented at check-in they all disappeared. Around here, it's hard to use a card fraudulently because it's all chip & pin and even if it is chip & signature, the card going into the machine authenticates the card, proves it was there, unlike the swipe.
You can still legally prosecute them in small claims court, because the exchange of goods happened in your jurisdiction.
.

If I dont actually charge their card they could end up as a no show, and I would have blocked the rooms. I could try it though but I dont think my processor does authorizations, they simply put through the charge.
Its all getting so complicated.
I know I could file Small Claims but that only means I'd get a
Judgement and not necessarily be able to collect on it!
Thanks for your input.
.

We just started doing online booking, I take a card online and run a deposit (small), when guest checks in the balance is run with their card present, for me, running the deposit online shows that the card was good and costs the guest something for me to hold the room, but I get to see an actual card for the balance when they arrive.
My deposit is small, but you could ask for a much larger deposit and then still charge the balance in person to show that you held the actual credit card. We've done something like that in the past for a self check in/late arrival, by keying in the card for the first night and requiring that the guest sign in and present the same card for the second night.
I guess the only other choice is to consider those losses as part of the cost of your method of booking online, if it is still a good financial deal then not a problem, otherwise time to explore other options.

 

[Morticia]

Are you processing the card in hand? Do you process with the chip?.

No I process the card as it is detailed on the booking agency site. I dont ask for the physical card when they get here.
.

And that's the reason it is so easy for them to get away with it. Process an auth only and require that they present the card in person and have them sign. The chip proves that the card was physically there.
I had a lot of fraud via BK, when they put a notice that the card must be presented at check-in they all disappeared. Around here, it's hard to use a card fraudulently because it's all chip & pin and even if it is chip & signature, the card going into the machine authenticates the card, proves it was there, unlike the swipe.
You can still legally prosecute them in small claims court, because the exchange of goods happened in your jurisdiction.
.

If I dont actually charge their card they could end up as a no show, and I would have blocked the rooms. I could try it though but I dont think my processor does authorizations, they simply put through the charge.
Its all getting so complicated.
I know I could file Small Claims but that only means I'd get a
Judgement and not necessarily be able to collect on it!
Thanks for your input.
.

If I dont actually charge their card they could end up as a no show, and I would have blocked the rooms. I could try it though but I dont think my processor does authorizations, they simply put through the charge.

What we do is take a deposit in advance. This validates the card. Then we require the card be presented at check in for the balance to be paid. We get the guest to sign BOTH slips - the deposit and the balance. We also have them sign a registration form with all their details on it.
Our booking.com listing says you will be required to show ID and present the credit card at check in. Like Generic said, it cuts down on a lot of fraud when you demand the valid card and ID.
If you don't have a credit card machine and you are just getting the money directly from booking.com, I'm not sure what you have to fall back on. You never saw the card and it was never swiped or dipped in a machine. Anyone could say the card was stolen and they never authorized that sale.

 

[Morticia]

Are you processing the card in hand? Do you process with the chip?.

No I process the card as it is detailed on the booking agency site. I dont ask for the physical card when they get here.
.

And that's the reason it is so easy for them to get away with it. Process an auth only and require that they present the card in person and have them sign. The chip proves that the card was physically there.
I had a lot of fraud via BK, when they put a notice that the card must be presented at check-in they all disappeared. Around here, it's hard to use a card fraudulently because it's all chip & pin and even if it is chip & signature, the card going into the machine authenticates the card, proves it was there, unlike the swipe.
You can still legally prosecute them in small claims court, because the exchange of goods happened in your jurisdiction.
.

If I dont actually charge their card they could end up as a no show, and I would have blocked the rooms. I could try it though but I dont think my processor does authorizations, they simply put through the charge.
Its all getting so complicated.
I know I could file Small Claims but that only means I'd get a
Judgement and not necessarily be able to collect on it!
Thanks for your input.
.

We just started doing online booking, I take a card online and run a deposit (small), when guest checks in the balance is run with their card present, for me, running the deposit online shows that the card was good and costs the guest something for me to hold the room, but I get to see an actual card for the balance when they arrive.
My deposit is small, but you could ask for a much larger deposit and then still charge the balance in person to show that you held the actual credit card. We've done something like that in the past for a self check in/late arrival, by keying in the card for the first night and requiring that the guest sign in and present the same card for the second night.
I guess the only other choice is to consider those losses as part of the cost of your method of booking online, if it is still a good financial deal then not a problem, otherwise time to explore other options.
.

We just started doing online booking, I take a card online and run a deposit (small), when guest checks in the balance is run with their card present, for me, running the deposit online shows that the card was good and costs the guest something for me to hold the room, but I get to see an actual card for the balance when they arrive.
My deposit is small, but you could ask for a much larger deposit and then still charge the balance in person to show that you held the actual credit card. We've done something like that in the past for a self check in/late arrival, by keying in the card for the first night and requiring that the guest sign in and present the same card for the second night.
I guess the only other choice is to consider those losses as part of the cost of your method of booking online, if it is still a good financial deal then not a problem, otherwise time to explore other options.

Yes.

 

[Lee2014]

Response to Jcam's post on the second page….
I don't know if Grandma did that but she says to let the guests leave their car in the parking lot after they check out so there are cars between check out and check in times.

We have two parking lots so we can "afford" to do that. I am aware that some places can't allow that. Free off street parking is a very high amenity for a place to have here. From small business to box stores, they have parking attendants who jealously guard every spot.

 

[Copperhead]

Did you get signatures of the sale? Did you use a booking system that has them check to say they agree to the booking terms?

If you say yes to these then you should have contested the chargeback. You do know you have the right to provide documentation proving you are deserving of the charge?

I can not say that you will always win but if you do not try the answer will always be no..

Do you honestly think that the price of the room determines whether this type of fraud will happen? I try to keep competitive but in this area it is hard to get more than $65. night off season. Even in season I only find higher rates possible during a Convention. Very much interested in your opinion.
For a while, I did look up their names on Facebook and when I could match the address, their picture popped up. A think a picture says a 1000 words.
Maybe I should go back to doing that. The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.
.

The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.

Ah, so you fell for the Bkdotcom trick! If you are going to take credit cards you must have the address where they get their CC statements. You also need the CVV code to run the card using the keypad. Not having this information is a certain red flag for the bank. That along with a requested chargeback from the card holder and bamm you are SOL.

 

[Jcam]

Did you get signatures of the sale? Did you use a booking system that has them check to say they agree to the booking terms?

If you say yes to these then you should have contested the chargeback. You do know you have the right to provide documentation proving you are deserving of the charge?

I can not say that you will always win but if you do not try the answer will always be no..

Do you honestly think that the price of the room determines whether this type of fraud will happen? I try to keep competitive but in this area it is hard to get more than $65. night off season. Even in season I only find higher rates possible during a Convention. Very much interested in your opinion.
For a while, I did look up their names on Facebook and when I could match the address, their picture popped up. A think a picture says a 1000 words.
Maybe I should go back to doing that. The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.
.

The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.

Ah, so you fell for the Bkdotcom trick! If you are going to take credit cards you must have the address where they get their CC statements. You also need the CVV code to run the card using the keypad. Not having this information is a certain red flag for the bank. That along with a requested chargeback from the card holder and bamm you are SOL.
.

plus it is mainly balony - most people who book this way have it saved in their computer or app anyway so doesn't reduce bookings as they just press click and book - only increases bookings from people who know the system and intend trying it on - they have an instant get out clause

 

[Audrey Forrest]

Did you get signatures of the sale? Did you use a booking system that has them check to say they agree to the booking terms?

If you say yes to these then you should have contested the chargeback. You do know you have the right to provide documentation proving you are deserving of the charge?

I can not say that you will always win but if you do not try the answer will always be no..

Do you honestly think that the price of the room determines whether this type of fraud will happen? I try to keep competitive but in this area it is hard to get more than $65. night off season. Even in season I only find higher rates possible during a Convention. Very much interested in your opinion.
For a while, I did look up their names on Facebook and when I could match the address, their picture popped up. A think a picture says a 1000 words.
Maybe I should go back to doing that. The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.
.

The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.

Ah, so you fell for the Bkdotcom trick! If you are going to take credit cards you must have the address where they get their CC statements. You also need the CVV code to run the card using the keypad. Not having this information is a certain red flag for the bank. That along with a requested chargeback from the card holder and bamm you are SOL.
.

plus it is mainly balony - most people who book this way have it saved in their computer or app anyway so doesn't reduce bookings as they just press click and book - only increases bookings from people who know the system and intend trying it on - they have an instant get out clause
.

Thank you everyone for your valued opinions and suggestions.
I am now taking the full addresses of all guests and raised the rates. Will see what happens. Probably wont get as many bookings but wont be so hagged out either!
Here's wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. Personally, I'm giving thanks for surviving the 2016 B&B year!!!

 

[Highlands John]

Did you get signatures of the sale? Did you use a booking system that has them check to say they agree to the booking terms?

If you say yes to these then you should have contested the chargeback. You do know you have the right to provide documentation proving you are deserving of the charge?

I can not say that you will always win but if you do not try the answer will always be no..

Do you honestly think that the price of the room determines whether this type of fraud will happen? I try to keep competitive but in this area it is hard to get more than $65. night off season. Even in season I only find higher rates possible during a Convention. Very much interested in your opinion.
For a while, I did look up their names on Facebook and when I could match the address, their picture popped up. A think a picture says a 1000 words.
Maybe I should go back to doing that. The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.
.

The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.

Ah, so you fell for the Bkdotcom trick! If you are going to take credit cards you must have the address where they get their CC statements. You also need the CVV code to run the card using the keypad. Not having this information is a certain red flag for the bank. That along with a requested chargeback from the card holder and bamm you are SOL.
.

plus it is mainly balony - most people who book this way have it saved in their computer or app anyway so doesn't reduce bookings as they just press click and book - only increases bookings from people who know the system and intend trying it on - they have an instant get out clause
.

Thank you everyone for your valued opinions and suggestions.
I am now taking the full addresses of all guests and raised the rates. Will see what happens. Probably wont get as many bookings but wont be so hagged out either!
Here's wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. Personally, I'm giving thanks for surviving the 2016 B&B year!!!
.

The first time we hiked our prices up our occupancy went down, but our takings went up, so a win/win really

 

[Audrey Forrest]

Did you get signatures of the sale? Did you use a booking system that has them check to say they agree to the booking terms?

If you say yes to these then you should have contested the chargeback. You do know you have the right to provide documentation proving you are deserving of the charge?

I can not say that you will always win but if you do not try the answer will always be no..

Do you honestly think that the price of the room determines whether this type of fraud will happen? I try to keep competitive but in this area it is hard to get more than $65. night off season. Even in season I only find higher rates possible during a Convention. Very much interested in your opinion.
For a while, I did look up their names on Facebook and when I could match the address, their picture popped up. A think a picture says a 1000 words.
Maybe I should go back to doing that. The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.
.

The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.

Ah, so you fell for the Bkdotcom trick! If you are going to take credit cards you must have the address where they get their CC statements. You also need the CVV code to run the card using the keypad. Not having this information is a certain red flag for the bank. That along with a requested chargeback from the card holder and bamm you are SOL.
.

plus it is mainly balony - most people who book this way have it saved in their computer or app anyway so doesn't reduce bookings as they just press click and book - only increases bookings from people who know the system and intend trying it on - they have an instant get out clause
.

Thank you everyone for your valued opinions and suggestions.
I am now taking the full addresses of all guests and raised the rates. Will see what happens. Probably wont get as many bookings but wont be so hagged out either!
Here's wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. Personally, I'm giving thanks for surviving the 2016 B&B year!!!
.

The first time we hiked our prices up our occupancy went down, but our takings went up, so a win/win really

.

Thank you for that! I hope I find the same thing.

 

[Highlands John]

Did you get signatures of the sale? Did you use a booking system that has them check to say they agree to the booking terms?

If you say yes to these then you should have contested the chargeback. You do know you have the right to provide documentation proving you are deserving of the charge?

I can not say that you will always win but if you do not try the answer will always be no..

Do you honestly think that the price of the room determines whether this type of fraud will happen? I try to keep competitive but in this area it is hard to get more than $65. night off season. Even in season I only find higher rates possible during a Convention. Very much interested in your opinion.
For a while, I did look up their names on Facebook and when I could match the address, their picture popped up. A think a picture says a 1000 words.
Maybe I should go back to doing that. The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.
.

The Booking Agent said we would get more bookings without asking for their address but now
I am beginning to wonder if that was a wise decision as all of the chargebacks except for one, we didnt have their addresses.

Ah, so you fell for the Bkdotcom trick! If you are going to take credit cards you must have the address where they get their CC statements. You also need the CVV code to run the card using the keypad. Not having this information is a certain red flag for the bank. That along with a requested chargeback from the card holder and bamm you are SOL.
.

plus it is mainly balony - most people who book this way have it saved in their computer or app anyway so doesn't reduce bookings as they just press click and book - only increases bookings from people who know the system and intend trying it on - they have an instant get out clause
.

Thank you everyone for your valued opinions and suggestions.
I am now taking the full addresses of all guests and raised the rates. Will see what happens. Probably wont get as many bookings but wont be so hagged out either!
Here's wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. Personally, I'm giving thanks for surviving the 2016 B&B year!!!
.

The first time we hiked our prices up our occupancy went down, but our takings went up, so a win/win really

.

Thank you for that! I hope I find the same thing.
.

Thank you for that! I hope I find the same thing.

Obviously I can't possible comment on your situation, but for us the first time (our 3rd year) we upped the prices we had a really slow Jan/Feb/Mar for summer bookings and we panicked and put them down again. Of course the summer season was just as busy as previous years in the end.
So we've learned to stand our ground when we increase the prices and so far we've got away with it. This season has been so busy here we've upped our prices for neat year.