Buying a Turnkey vs. Starting From Scratch

[Breakfast Diva]

We bought an existing B&B but it was NOT turnkey. Even if the owner hadn't had a fire here while we were in the process of buying it (!) we still would've had a lot to do. We replaced all the mattresses, beds, linens, towels, much of the furniture; plus we painted everything.
But it wasn't only the physical buildings that we had to revamp, we had to build up the business. There was no 'goodwill' in terms of existing business. I can count on one hand the number of enquiries I've had from the PO's previous guests (meanwhile we get about 40% repeat business). The PO had been relying on snowmobilers and highway construction crew as her bread and butter, but we went after a completely different market and had to build that up from nothing.
So in many ways we started from next-to-scratch, but since it was already a legit business, at least we didn't have to go through any zoning or permit issues. I'd say it was much more affordable this way than if we were to build new or buy a healthy business. And while we haven't changed the bones of the buildings, we've made it our own to a great extent..

That seems like a smart combination- picking up the physical property with permits and potential to be reborn. I think I would like the idea that I could get the property at a great price, build some sweat equity and start off the business like it was new.
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Brand new to the forum and business - we're aspiring and have recently begun the property search. We've been contemplating many of the points that y'all have been discussing in this thread; we've found a couple historical buildings that have the essence and charm we are looking for. Now, thanks to this forum, we know to check into permitting and licensing BEFORE making our offers.
Part of the process that we are looking forward to is making it our own, and while we have found some turnkey properties available it's the work in progress ones that seem to catch our hearts as well as our eyes.
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and good luck for your project.
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And thank you as well! I have my fingers crossed, and am trying to learn as much as I can about all aspects - I'm like a sponge....so please feel free to share any wisdom =)
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This is an exciting time for you. Do as much research as you can. Have you taken an aspiring innkeeper workshop? Did you go to the CABBI conference?
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Thank you - and no, not yet - that's part of what we're looking to find. And until I go look up CABBI, I don't even know what that is! (yep, a true newbie couple we are.) If you or anyone else has any recommendations for the Workshop(s) I will take them! I am hoping to get into one soon.
This is so very exciting indeed! And such a learning process!
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Cabbi is the California Association of Bed and Breakfast Inns.

 

[EmptyNest]

We bought an existing B&B but it was NOT turnkey. Even if the owner hadn't had a fire here while we were in the process of buying it (!) we still would've had a lot to do. We replaced all the mattresses, beds, linens, towels, much of the furniture; plus we painted everything.
But it wasn't only the physical buildings that we had to revamp, we had to build up the business. There was no 'goodwill' in terms of existing business. I can count on one hand the number of enquiries I've had from the PO's previous guests (meanwhile we get about 40% repeat business). The PO had been relying on snowmobilers and highway construction crew as her bread and butter, but we went after a completely different market and had to build that up from nothing.
So in many ways we started from next-to-scratch, but since it was already a legit business, at least we didn't have to go through any zoning or permit issues. I'd say it was much more affordable this way than if we were to build new or buy a healthy business. And while we haven't changed the bones of the buildings, we've made it our own to a great extent..

That seems like a smart combination- picking up the physical property with permits and potential to be reborn. I think I would like the idea that I could get the property at a great price, build some sweat equity and start off the business like it was new.
.

Brand new to the forum and business - we're aspiring and have recently begun the property search. We've been contemplating many of the points that y'all have been discussing in this thread; we've found a couple historical buildings that have the essence and charm we are looking for. Now, thanks to this forum, we know to check into permitting and licensing BEFORE making our offers.
Part of the process that we are looking forward to is making it our own, and while we have found some turnkey properties available it's the work in progress ones that seem to catch our hearts as well as our eyes.
.

Welcome. What area of the country are you looking at?
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Well, thank you very much! We hail from Southern California and are looking in Northern Michigan. We want to move back there and this seems the best route to go now that the kids (well most of them) are grown up and out of the house.
.

I recommend contacting Bob Feuhr, he is "Michigan's Inn Broker". See his website here. He is very knowledgeable about the Michigan market and a heck of a nice guy.
.

My friends bought and sold their inn with him...they like him alot!!!

 

[Mary at Bridgewater Inn and Cottage]

We built ours from scratch. Our house existed but the idea for the cabins was not hatched until several years later. We did a short term loan to help purchase the cabin kits and paid that off with what the cabins generated within a year. Of course sweat equity helped a lot. We did all the construction ourselves (with the exception of some plumbing and some electrical that were beyond me) so that saved a lot of money. If we had paid people to do all the work we would probably still have a loan associated with it..

I wish more folks could take a swing at building their own.
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There is a place for newly-built B&Bs but there is a lot to be said for keeping a historic property well-maintained and in the public provenance, as well. A very large part of the appeal of owning a B&B for me comes from living in a historic home and maintaining it in such a way that there isn't a risk of it being lost through neglect or disrepair. Renovating an old house takes a special kind of love and care.
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I have thought about it once and a while and I think it would be a great project to rehab one. I think its great that some folks are willing to take on preservation as part of thier business. My enthusiasm for what we did is mostly because we were able to keep our overall costs at a level that would allow us to get started and then make a living at it. If we sell and are looking to reinvest in another inn, our age may favor looking for an existing property.
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Hummmm......I converted the house I live in to a B&B in 2002 after attending a B&B class at the local Community College.Just at the class for more knowledge, not interested in B&B's but as the class progressed and more people talked, I realized I had more commen sense than most in the class.Plus an old house, in a good location,money in a rental house for construction for the B&B. Redid the loan on the rental. I was the contractor ,hired the workers ,plus was the go- for this & that in my truck.Planning on adding 1 or 2 more unites and retire in 2 yrs. I am 65.5 yrs old now and still work full time at Campus Police at Bridgewater College.So on to time in flipping a room it takes me 1 hour +as I have kitchens,dishes,jettedtub ,etc,etc.etc,more you have,more time.I do the lawn,etc but my son in law fixes faucets,heated towel racks,locks,flag holder all this week. Glad they moved here last yr a great help for me. Will sell the rental next year and start on construction here. Its nice being in command of your own future......Mary @ Bridgewater Inn

 

[riverbendnewbie]

Dude, I hate to break it to ya, but there is NO WAY you can handle 9 rooms alone, without a couple three full time staff, not and have a quality clean place that's well marketed and well maintained. Uh, uh, not even if you were Clark Kent and had a spouse helping, still no way. I don't think anyone on this forum would disagree with me..

I'll just leave this part with, I have high energy
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I'll just leave this part with, I have high energy

Sorry, I guess I just asked the same question everyone else did. I'm just going to make a little joke and then I won't mention this again...I would pay money to watch you do this single handedly because I don't think it's 'high energy' so much as just plain 'high'.

Hopefully you're already working in the field so you know what you're talking about.
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I guess all people are different and that's what makes the world go round. You think I'm crazy for thinking I can do 9 rooms, I think you're slow because you can't

Everyone is different and my thoughts are neither better or worse than anyone elses.
.

Look, we essentially started this thread primarily for your benefit and everybody has taken great care and time to share their experiences.
Show some respect.
We've all been there and done it.
Being glib won't encourage more ideas or offerings of help.
"I guess all people are different and that's what makes the world go round."
This ain't the world, this is innkeeping and these are voices of great combined experience and real world, hands on doing it. Not hypothetically or wishful thinking wise.
"You think I'm crazy for thinking I can do 9 rooms, I think you're slow because you can't

"
Not crazy, just inexperienced and unrealistic. She isn't slow, nobody can do it. Even if you drop your standards and cut the cleaning time to half and hour that's four and a half hours, everyday, day in and day out, and in a place your research says is busier than most in the country.
In a normal year, meaning any year but this one for us, between July and mid-November, we will go on runs of 40-50 somtimes more days in a row with at least a couple of rooms occupied and at least a turn or two per day. I swear as someone trying to appreciate your energy and enthusiasm, it catches up with after a while.
Do the math yourself. Between the industry standard average of an 11am check out and the same 3pm check in, you have four hours.
Those four hours get cut into by all the stuff my first repsonse to you on time management include.
"Everyone is different and my thoughts are neither better or worse than anyone elses."
This is only true to a certain point when it comes to hands on experience with something.
I may think that a brake job on my 4x4 is easy and should only take my mechanic so many hours, but his many years of experience allows him the insight to know exactly how long it will take.
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I wasn't aware that this thread was started just for me. I must have missed the announcement. As for respect, it's given back as it's received.
I have many friends in the hotel industry and have spoke with them about certain aspects, cleaning being one of them. According to them standard cleaning time is between 15-20 minutes per room for a "flip." A "fluff" as you all say, is 7 minutes. I might add that these are not mom and pop type operations but mega resorts. On average there are 40 rooms per floor with two to three housekeepers per floor, per day.
I suppose this is 'innkeeping' and not to knock any establishment, but that's probably why it's a slower pace compared to a hotel.
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Wow, we have only three rooms right now and last weekend we were fully booked for the first time. On Sunday when everyone had left I got my first taste of reality lol ! By the way our checkout time is 11 but guests were slow and it was 11;45 before they were all gone. My husband and I finally had the rooms all back together by 2pm. I thought that was pretty good but maybe we will have to work faster. Geez, I couldn't imagine doing 9 rooms!

 

[riverbendnewbie]

We bought our place to start a B&B/Inn. It already had 7 bathrooms and 6 bedrooms(each with their own PB). Agroup of business men owned it before so it already had the right structure. However, you have to be patient and build up your clientelle, so I am still nursing casual for the time being. Thank goodness my husband is a great cook and social butterfly. I think its a little tougher this way but its done our way.

 

[The Farmers Daughter]

We bought an historic home and turned it into a B & B. It was a huge learning experience. Right now we are in year 12 of our 5 year plan.

 

[muirford]

We bought an historic home and turned it into a B & B. It was a huge learning experience. Right now we are in year 12 of our 5 year plan..

Right now we are in year 12 of our 5 year plan.

typo or intentional LOL?

 

[The Farmers Daughter]

We bought an historic home and turned it into a B & B. It was a huge learning experience. Right now we are in year 12 of our 5 year plan..

Right now we are in year 12 of our 5 year plan.

typo or intentional LOL?

.

Right now we are in year 12 of our 5 year plan.

typo or intentional LOL?

Intentional.
Translation - Everything always takes longer than you expect it to.
Our original idea was that we were going to get it started and then flip it to go to something else after 5 years....

 

[wendydk]

We bought an historic home and turned it into a B & B. It was a huge learning experience. Right now we are in year 12 of our 5 year plan..

I thought that in another thread, you said that you had to consult "senior management" on a guest issue. Do you actually own you place then?

 

[Samster]

We bought an historic home and turned it into a B & B. It was a huge learning experience. Right now we are in year 12 of our 5 year plan..

So, you are not an emplyee like people keep thinking? I am so confused.....
Senior management must be your significant other then?

 

[Country Girl]

We basically started from scratch. The house was here, but it needed major restoration including all new floors, walls, and ceilings on the first floor, new windows throughout, and new paint inside and out. But the "feel" of the house was perfect, right from the start, and each room had it's own bathroom, which was a major plus. I had fallen in love with this property years earlier so when we were able to buy it and turn it into a B&B it was by divine intervention and everything fell into place.
We bought our home 13 years ago and started the B&B 12 years ago. I opened with 1 room, then a few months later I went to 2 and then about a year after, opened the 3rd room. I did this slowly because my children were young, 7, 9, and 11 at the time and I wanted to be sure that it would not negatively impact their lives. I did not advertise for the few years and relied solely upon the local boarding school for bookings. They were wonderful at referring families to us and we got most of our business from them. After a few years of getting my feet wet in the business I started advertising online and my business really took off and has grown every year since.
The biggest surprise was how expensive the renovation turned out to be. It cost us twice what we anticipated. Then we added on a new kitchen with a finished room below and an unfinished room above for storage. That equaled the cost of buying the original house! But it was necessary to assure some privacy for our 3 children and for us.
My unbelievably wonderful husband has his own consulting business and also does all the maintenance on the house and the property. There is no way we could have done this without his handy abilities and his income. Last year when things slowed down considerably for him the income from B&B kept us afloat. We can't live on the income from the B&B alone but hopefully in about 3 more years we will be able to do so.

 

[The Farmers Daughter]

We bought an historic home and turned it into a B & B. It was a huge learning experience. Right now we are in year 12 of our 5 year plan..

I thought that in another thread, you said that you had to consult "senior management" on a guest issue. Do you actually own you place then?
.

No, we are a multi partner investment group consisting of major investment partners who own the most % of the business and a minor investment partner (me - I am the on site working partner) who answers to everyone else.

 

[The Farmers Daughter]

We bought an historic home and turned it into a B & B. It was a huge learning experience. Right now we are in year 12 of our 5 year plan..

So, you are not an emplyee like people keep thinking? I am so confused.....
Senior management must be your significant other then?

.

So, you are not an emplyee like people keep thinking? I am so confused.....
Senior management must be your significant other then?

No. Please see above expanation # 44188.

 

[MommyTaylor]

We bought our place to start a B&B/Inn. It already had 7 bathrooms and 6 bedrooms(each with their own PB). Agroup of business men owned it before so it already had the right structure. However, you have to be patient and build up your clientelle, so I am still nursing casual for the time being. Thank goodness my husband is a great cook and social butterfly. I think its a little tougher this way but its done our way..

NICE! That would be a great find, indeed - that actually sounds like it could/work for us too.

 

[cherry64]

We bought an existing B&B but it was NOT turnkey. Even if the owner hadn't had a fire here while we were in the process of buying it (!) we still would've had a lot to do. We replaced all the mattresses, beds, linens, towels, much of the furniture; plus we painted everything.
But it wasn't only the physical buildings that we had to revamp, we had to build up the business. There was no 'goodwill' in terms of existing business. I can count on one hand the number of enquiries I've had from the PO's previous guests (meanwhile we get about 40% repeat business). The PO had been relying on snowmobilers and highway construction crew as her bread and butter, but we went after a completely different market and had to build that up from nothing.
So in many ways we started from next-to-scratch, but since it was already a legit business, at least we didn't have to go through any zoning or permit issues. I'd say it was much more affordable this way than if we were to build new or buy a healthy business. And while we haven't changed the bones of the buildings, we've made it our own to a great extent..

That seems like a smart combination- picking up the physical property with permits and potential to be reborn. I think I would like the idea that I could get the property at a great price, build some sweat equity and start off the business like it was new.
.

Brand new to the forum and business - we're aspiring and have recently begun the property search. We've been contemplating many of the points that y'all have been discussing in this thread; we've found a couple historical buildings that have the essence and charm we are looking for. Now, thanks to this forum, we know to check into permitting and licensing BEFORE making our offers.
Part of the process that we are looking forward to is making it our own, and while we have found some turnkey properties available it's the work in progress ones that seem to catch our hearts as well as our eyes.
.

Welcome. What area of the country are you looking at?
.

Well, thank you very much! We hail from Southern California and are looking in Northern Michigan. We want to move back there and this seems the best route to go now that the kids (well most of them) are grown up and out of the house.
.

I recommend contacting Bob Feuhr, he is "Michigan's Inn Broker". See his website here. He is very knowledgeable about the Michigan market and a heck of a nice guy.
.

I recommend contacting Bob Feuhr, he is "Michigan's Inn Broker". See his website here. He is very knowledgeable about the Michigan market and a heck of a nice guy.

Bob is great! We went to his B & B class a few years ago.