Bed and breakfast expands with dinner, bar and more - INN the news 12.01.08

[Samster]

The health inspector came yesterda for his annual inspection. All went well but the first thing he said was "I just want to make sure you are only serving breakfast because as a bed and breakfasts that is all you are allowed to serve". I never asked him if afternoon cookies were taboo. Who knows he may want to put a stop to that as well. Oh and I'm glad it went well because he did mention that this year all places serving food will have there reports made open to the public on the internet.
Also, he wants our kitchen to have that extra sink for sanitizing like in a commercial kitchen. He wants it in by next year when he arrives. OMG
This guy can't stand it if he can't find something wrong so he suddenly makes something up I think.
Both DH and I have taken the food handler course, complete with exam at the end. He insisted that all people working at a b & b or handling food in a restaurant in Canada are now required to take it. So we have it.
It has always crossed my mind and others have made the suggestion to me that I open a teahouse here. I hadn't really thought seriously about it until this week when we really started to slow down. I'm sure I would require a commercial kitchen for that. Besides the extra sink, what else would a commercial kitchen require. My DH is doing a complete reno on our kitchen in January so it might be worth it to just do it then and get it over with in case we do want to make this into a teahouse.
So can someone tell me what else I would need in the kitchen to make it commercial?.

I guess you need to check locally with your Health Dept. They changed the restaurant rules here recently and everyone must be compliant by next year. The BIG change was the number of sinks. Three compartment sink for dishwashing, etc. plus a separate prep sink for produce. Separate handwashing sink and a separate mop sink. 6 sinks required total. Then, all appliances have to be of commercial quality. Any restaurant using residential appliances has to replace them with commercial grade. Then there is the fire suppression system, depending on what type of restaurant. And, fan hood requirements. Flooring requirements. Counter top requirements. Septic requirements and grease trap requirements. So, you can see that it's best to check to see what is required there. Can you go online and find it??
Luckily, we are still under a special license under tourist accommodations. We can only serve breakfast and snacks to registered guests.
They do get picky on raw meat storage (as they should). I guess when you serve breakfast meats, they are mostly smoked or fully cooked (like some ham). Sausage here goes from the freezer to being cooked to temp. And as long as eggs are kept to temp in the fridge and fully cooked (one of the reasons I don't serve soft yolks), they have no problem.
Good luck!

 

[happyjacks]

The health inspector came yesterda for his annual inspection. All went well but the first thing he said was "I just want to make sure you are only serving breakfast because as a bed and breakfasts that is all you are allowed to serve". I never asked him if afternoon cookies were taboo. Who knows he may want to put a stop to that as well. Oh and I'm glad it went well because he did mention that this year all places serving food will have there reports made open to the public on the internet.
Also, he wants our kitchen to have that extra sink for sanitizing like in a commercial kitchen. He wants it in by next year when he arrives. OMG
This guy can't stand it if he can't find something wrong so he suddenly makes something up I think.
Both DH and I have taken the food handler course, complete with exam at the end. He insisted that all people working at a b & b or handling food in a restaurant in Canada are now required to take it. So we have it.
It has always crossed my mind and others have made the suggestion to me that I open a teahouse here. I hadn't really thought seriously about it until this week when we really started to slow down. I'm sure I would require a commercial kitchen for that. Besides the extra sink, what else would a commercial kitchen require. My DH is doing a complete reno on our kitchen in January so it might be worth it to just do it then and get it over with in case we do want to make this into a teahouse.
So can someone tell me what else I would need in the kitchen to make it commercial?.

So can someone tell me what else I would need in the kitchen to make it commercial?

Lois, it changes from province to province, and from municipality to municipality. You really need to go to the source for this info. A good starting point is the Canada-Saskatchewan Business Service Centre. It's a great resource for small business owners in your area.
For Canadians in other parts of the country, go to the Canada Business Service Centre and click on the flag for your province at the bottom of the page.

 

[user 26]

sinks!
in maine, the inspector told me that a 3rd sink will be required in the next few years so if i was planning any reno, i should put one in.
commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper. so i was getting a little saucy and asked the inspector what made up a kitchen? if the BIG kitchen complied in terms of sinks and dishwasher and sanitization area and stovetop and oven and refrigeration, could my private kitchen be a sink, a mini fridge and a hotplate? i said it with a smile and he just narrowed his eyes at me. end of conversation. but i am aware of little places round about that do have two kitchens ... two real kitchens ... but the owners prepare their meals in the commercial kitchen even tho that's supposed to be taboo. why i don't know. if i had this awesome commercial kitchen, why would it be against the rules to cook my own meals in there? i don't and i didn't but others do and i wonder why this is part of the regulations.

 

[egoodell]

The health inspector came yesterda for his annual inspection. All went well but the first thing he said was "I just want to make sure you are only serving breakfast because as a bed and breakfasts that is all you are allowed to serve". I never asked him if afternoon cookies were taboo. Who knows he may want to put a stop to that as well. Oh and I'm glad it went well because he did mention that this year all places serving food will have there reports made open to the public on the internet.
Also, he wants our kitchen to have that extra sink for sanitizing like in a commercial kitchen. He wants it in by next year when he arrives. OMG
This guy can't stand it if he can't find something wrong so he suddenly makes something up I think.
Both DH and I have taken the food handler course, complete with exam at the end. He insisted that all people working at a b & b or handling food in a restaurant in Canada are now required to take it. So we have it.
It has always crossed my mind and others have made the suggestion to me that I open a teahouse here. I hadn't really thought seriously about it until this week when we really started to slow down. I'm sure I would require a commercial kitchen for that. Besides the extra sink, what else would a commercial kitchen require. My DH is doing a complete reno on our kitchen in January so it might be worth it to just do it then and get it over with in case we do want to make this into a teahouse.
So can someone tell me what else I would need in the kitchen to make it commercial?.

I guess you need to check locally with your Health Dept. They changed the restaurant rules here recently and everyone must be compliant by next year. The BIG change was the number of sinks. Three compartment sink for dishwashing, etc. plus a separate prep sink for produce. Separate handwashing sink and a separate mop sink. 6 sinks required total. Then, all appliances have to be of commercial quality. Any restaurant using residential appliances has to replace them with commercial grade. Then there is the fire suppression system, depending on what type of restaurant. And, fan hood requirements. Flooring requirements. Counter top requirements. Septic requirements and grease trap requirements. So, you can see that it's best to check to see what is required there. Can you go online and find it??
Luckily, we are still under a special license under tourist accommodations. We can only serve breakfast and snacks to registered guests.
They do get picky on raw meat storage (as they should). I guess when you serve breakfast meats, they are mostly smoked or fully cooked (like some ham). Sausage here goes from the freezer to being cooked to temp. And as long as eggs are kept to temp in the fridge and fully cooked (one of the reasons I don't serve soft yolks), they have no problem.
Good luck!
.

Plus some of them require a wall covering that is expensive - I guess it's fire-retardant.
RIki

 

[Morticia]

sinks!
in maine, the inspector told me that a 3rd sink will be required in the next few years so if i was planning any reno, i should put one in.
commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper. so i was getting a little saucy and asked the inspector what made up a kitchen? if the BIG kitchen complied in terms of sinks and dishwasher and sanitization area and stovetop and oven and refrigeration, could my private kitchen be a sink, a mini fridge and a hotplate? i said it with a smile and he just narrowed his eyes at me. end of conversation. but i am aware of little places round about that do have two kitchens ... two real kitchens ... but the owners prepare their meals in the commercial kitchen even tho that's supposed to be taboo. why i don't know. if i had this awesome commercial kitchen, why would it be against the rules to cook my own meals in there? i don't and i didn't but others do and i wonder why this is part of the regulations..

And to make matters worse, my TOWN has different regs than the state. I still can't figure out what's what. All I know is that what I have works and I'm not messing with it until it comes down to 'fix it or close'.
We have a fully-operational separate kitchen that is twice the size of the one in the inn.
Seriously? I think the inspector was way over his authority in what he was telling owners. None of the inspectors agree on anything because there are no clear rules at the state level. Given how much trouble we've had just trying to get them to agree to THINK about allowing B&B's to do other meals besides breakfast makes me think it's going to take awhile to get them to say we all have to completely renovate or close down.

 

[gillumhouse]

sinks!
in maine, the inspector told me that a 3rd sink will be required in the next few years so if i was planning any reno, i should put one in.
commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper. so i was getting a little saucy and asked the inspector what made up a kitchen? if the BIG kitchen complied in terms of sinks and dishwasher and sanitization area and stovetop and oven and refrigeration, could my private kitchen be a sink, a mini fridge and a hotplate? i said it with a smile and he just narrowed his eyes at me. end of conversation. but i am aware of little places round about that do have two kitchens ... two real kitchens ... but the owners prepare their meals in the commercial kitchen even tho that's supposed to be taboo. why i don't know. if i had this awesome commercial kitchen, why would it be against the rules to cook my own meals in there? i don't and i didn't but others do and i wonder why this is part of the regulations..

commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper.
That is the thing that has always made me scratch my head - must have separate kitchen for innkeeper. Cooking food is cooking food, no matter who is going to eat it! Is the insinuation that what I am going to do for my family is different than what I am going to serve the public? Would it be Earth-shattering if the family ate something that was cooked in the commercial kitchen?
We are also required to have the bleach sink - we have a plastic tub that we use for bleach water for all the dishes. We were told as long as we bleach them, we are legal.

 

[Morticia]

sinks!
in maine, the inspector told me that a 3rd sink will be required in the next few years so if i was planning any reno, i should put one in.
commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper. so i was getting a little saucy and asked the inspector what made up a kitchen? if the BIG kitchen complied in terms of sinks and dishwasher and sanitization area and stovetop and oven and refrigeration, could my private kitchen be a sink, a mini fridge and a hotplate? i said it with a smile and he just narrowed his eyes at me. end of conversation. but i am aware of little places round about that do have two kitchens ... two real kitchens ... but the owners prepare their meals in the commercial kitchen even tho that's supposed to be taboo. why i don't know. if i had this awesome commercial kitchen, why would it be against the rules to cook my own meals in there? i don't and i didn't but others do and i wonder why this is part of the regulations..

commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper.
That is the thing that has always made me scratch my head - must have separate kitchen for innkeeper. Cooking food is cooking food, no matter who is going to eat it! Is the insinuation that what I am going to do for my family is different than what I am going to serve the public? Would it be Earth-shattering if the family ate something that was cooked in the commercial kitchen?
We are also required to have the bleach sink - we have a plastic tub that we use for bleach water for all the dishes. We were told as long as we bleach them, we are legal.
.

commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper.
That is the thing that has always made me scratch my head - must have separate kitchen for innkeeper. Cooking food is cooking food, no matter who is going to eat it! Is the insinuation that what I am going to do for my family is different than what I am going to serve the public? Would it be Earth-shattering if the family ate something that was cooked in the commercial kitchen?
We are also required to have the bleach sink - we have a plastic tub that we use for bleach water for all the dishes. We were told as long as we bleach them, we are legal.

I have NO idea what the thinking behind this is, BUT, if the innkeeper has kids and the kids have friends, I seriously would NOT want to be eating food the kids had pawed over. Maybe it's something like that? I have a friend whose kids consistently raid the inn's kitchen, leave the doors to the freezer unit open, slop stuff everywhere, stick their hands on everything, leave stuff on the counter and drag all their friends thru, scavenging. It would be better for all concerned if they would behave, but they don't, so I wouldn't want to eat anything she's prepared if it wasn't cooked immediately prior to serving.
Just think of normal kids. Standing with the door to the fridge open, hoping something will appear. Picking over the muffins. All the stuff kids just DO, not thinking.

 

[gillumhouse]

sinks!
in maine, the inspector told me that a 3rd sink will be required in the next few years so if i was planning any reno, i should put one in.
commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper. so i was getting a little saucy and asked the inspector what made up a kitchen? if the BIG kitchen complied in terms of sinks and dishwasher and sanitization area and stovetop and oven and refrigeration, could my private kitchen be a sink, a mini fridge and a hotplate? i said it with a smile and he just narrowed his eyes at me. end of conversation. but i am aware of little places round about that do have two kitchens ... two real kitchens ... but the owners prepare their meals in the commercial kitchen even tho that's supposed to be taboo. why i don't know. if i had this awesome commercial kitchen, why would it be against the rules to cook my own meals in there? i don't and i didn't but others do and i wonder why this is part of the regulations..

commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper.
That is the thing that has always made me scratch my head - must have separate kitchen for innkeeper. Cooking food is cooking food, no matter who is going to eat it! Is the insinuation that what I am going to do for my family is different than what I am going to serve the public? Would it be Earth-shattering if the family ate something that was cooked in the commercial kitchen?
We are also required to have the bleach sink - we have a plastic tub that we use for bleach water for all the dishes. We were told as long as we bleach them, we are legal.
.

commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper.
That is the thing that has always made me scratch my head - must have separate kitchen for innkeeper. Cooking food is cooking food, no matter who is going to eat it! Is the insinuation that what I am going to do for my family is different than what I am going to serve the public? Would it be Earth-shattering if the family ate something that was cooked in the commercial kitchen?
We are also required to have the bleach sink - we have a plastic tub that we use for bleach water for all the dishes. We were told as long as we bleach them, we are legal.

I have NO idea what the thinking behind this is, BUT, if the innkeeper has kids and the kids have friends, I seriously would NOT want to be eating food the kids had pawed over. Maybe it's something like that? I have a friend whose kids consistently raid the inn's kitchen, leave the doors to the freezer unit open, slop stuff everywhere, stick their hands on everything, leave stuff on the counter and drag all their friends thru, scavenging. It would be better for all concerned if they would behave, but they don't, so I wouldn't want to eat anything she's prepared if it wasn't cooked immediately prior to serving.
Just think of normal kids. Standing with the door to the fridge open, hoping something will appear. Picking over the muffins. All the stuff kids just DO, not thinking.
.

You got me there. OK. I tend to forget about kids since mine are thankfully grown and on their own - NOT living with me!

 

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

sinks!
in maine, the inspector told me that a 3rd sink will be required in the next few years so if i was planning any reno, i should put one in.
commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper. so i was getting a little saucy and asked the inspector what made up a kitchen? if the BIG kitchen complied in terms of sinks and dishwasher and sanitization area and stovetop and oven and refrigeration, could my private kitchen be a sink, a mini fridge and a hotplate? i said it with a smile and he just narrowed his eyes at me. end of conversation. but i am aware of little places round about that do have two kitchens ... two real kitchens ... but the owners prepare their meals in the commercial kitchen even tho that's supposed to be taboo. why i don't know. if i had this awesome commercial kitchen, why would it be against the rules to cook my own meals in there? i don't and i didn't but others do and i wonder why this is part of the regulations..

commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper.
That is the thing that has always made me scratch my head - must have separate kitchen for innkeeper. Cooking food is cooking food, no matter who is going to eat it! Is the insinuation that what I am going to do for my family is different than what I am going to serve the public? Would it be Earth-shattering if the family ate something that was cooked in the commercial kitchen?
We are also required to have the bleach sink - we have a plastic tub that we use for bleach water for all the dishes. We were told as long as we bleach them, we are legal.
.

commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper.
That is the thing that has always made me scratch my head - must have separate kitchen for innkeeper. Cooking food is cooking food, no matter who is going to eat it! Is the insinuation that what I am going to do for my family is different than what I am going to serve the public? Would it be Earth-shattering if the family ate something that was cooked in the commercial kitchen?
We are also required to have the bleach sink - we have a plastic tub that we use for bleach water for all the dishes. We were told as long as we bleach them, we are legal.

I have NO idea what the thinking behind this is, BUT, if the innkeeper has kids and the kids have friends, I seriously would NOT want to be eating food the kids had pawed over. Maybe it's something like that? I have a friend whose kids consistently raid the inn's kitchen, leave the doors to the freezer unit open, slop stuff everywhere, stick their hands on everything, leave stuff on the counter and drag all their friends thru, scavenging. It would be better for all concerned if they would behave, but they don't, so I wouldn't want to eat anything she's prepared if it wasn't cooked immediately prior to serving.
Just think of normal kids. Standing with the door to the fridge open, hoping something will appear. Picking over the muffins. All the stuff kids just DO, not thinking.
.

Just think of normal kids. Standing with the door to the fridge open, hoping something will appear.
Picking over the muffins. All the stuff kids just DO,
not thinking.

Picking their noses and picking over the muffins. All the stuff kids just DO
ecoli waiting to happen

 

[Morticia]

sinks!
in maine, the inspector told me that a 3rd sink will be required in the next few years so if i was planning any reno, i should put one in.
commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper. so i was getting a little saucy and asked the inspector what made up a kitchen? if the BIG kitchen complied in terms of sinks and dishwasher and sanitization area and stovetop and oven and refrigeration, could my private kitchen be a sink, a mini fridge and a hotplate? i said it with a smile and he just narrowed his eyes at me. end of conversation. but i am aware of little places round about that do have two kitchens ... two real kitchens ... but the owners prepare their meals in the commercial kitchen even tho that's supposed to be taboo. why i don't know. if i had this awesome commercial kitchen, why would it be against the rules to cook my own meals in there? i don't and i didn't but others do and i wonder why this is part of the regulations..

commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper.
That is the thing that has always made me scratch my head - must have separate kitchen for innkeeper. Cooking food is cooking food, no matter who is going to eat it! Is the insinuation that what I am going to do for my family is different than what I am going to serve the public? Would it be Earth-shattering if the family ate something that was cooked in the commercial kitchen?
We are also required to have the bleach sink - we have a plastic tub that we use for bleach water for all the dishes. We were told as long as we bleach them, we are legal.
.

commercial kitchen - biggest issue for me was that this was to be a kitchen separate from the private kitchen of innkeeper.
That is the thing that has always made me scratch my head - must have separate kitchen for innkeeper. Cooking food is cooking food, no matter who is going to eat it! Is the insinuation that what I am going to do for my family is different than what I am going to serve the public? Would it be Earth-shattering if the family ate something that was cooked in the commercial kitchen?
We are also required to have the bleach sink - we have a plastic tub that we use for bleach water for all the dishes. We were told as long as we bleach them, we are legal.

I have NO idea what the thinking behind this is, BUT, if the innkeeper has kids and the kids have friends, I seriously would NOT want to be eating food the kids had pawed over. Maybe it's something like that? I have a friend whose kids consistently raid the inn's kitchen, leave the doors to the freezer unit open, slop stuff everywhere, stick their hands on everything, leave stuff on the counter and drag all their friends thru, scavenging. It would be better for all concerned if they would behave, but they don't, so I wouldn't want to eat anything she's prepared if it wasn't cooked immediately prior to serving.
Just think of normal kids. Standing with the door to the fridge open, hoping something will appear. Picking over the muffins. All the stuff kids just DO, not thinking.
.

Just think of normal kids. Standing with the door to the fridge open, hoping something will appear.
Picking over the muffins. All the stuff kids just DO,
not thinking.

Picking their noses and picking over the muffins. All the stuff kids just DO
ecoli waiting to happen
.

Just think of normal kids. Standing with the door to the fridge open, hoping something will appear.
Picking over the muffins. All the stuff kids just DO,
not thinking.

Picking their noses and picking over the muffins. All the stuff kids just DO
ecoli waiting to happen

Ewwwww.

 

[user 26]

so families with grubby paws making messes in the kitchen and contaminating food and the prep area that is supposed to be regulation clean for guest food prep?
in theory i guess it makes sense but in truth i've seen families using the commercial kitchen, etc.

 

[YellowSocks]

I'm coming into this discussion late... sorry for the delay, especially to Penelope!
In Ohio we have very lax rules... I can make dinners (105 meals per week, regardless of whether it's breakfast, lunch or dinner). I can make baked goods and sell them at the Farmer's Market, or even sell them to grocery stores and restaurants. For $10 I can get a Home Bakery License (inspection checks that there is no carpet and no pets). And yet, there are regulations that are inhibiting as well.
We have two forces at work. The state level people are all about regulations and inspections. Yet the public relations side of the State wants to show how they are promoting business and allowing people to get out there and make money (which regulations generally inhibit). The regulatory people also recognize that they can regulate until the cows come home and you'll still get hair in the cookies.
I know all this because I spoke with a person down in Columbus about Home Bakery regulations. Current regulations state that I cannot roast coffee in a little home roaster and sell it at the farmer's market (regardless of the obvious shelf stable nature of the product) unless I have a separate manufacturing facility that meets Good Manufacuting Process regulations (think commercial kitchen on steroids). She frankly acknowledged that she's a regulator, all in favor of regulations, but that the reality is that they can't be everywhere all the time, and that there is pressure from both sides... some who want every food producer to be inspected and others who want to promote business in Ohio and make what regulations we have less cumbersome.
She also acknowledged the problem with inspecting Home Bakeries (and this would apply to B&B's as well) is that her inspectors are entering private residences... aside from not having regular business hours or customer service areas, it could be potentially dangerous for her inspectors. Unlikely that any of them will get assaulted, but I've known nurses who refused to work for at home visitation services (in spite that all clients are pre-screened) for just that reason.
Meanwhile, just as in Maine, all of this is carried out on a local level, county by county. And with 88 counties, the interpretation of regulations and the acual inspections varies by inspector. Our inspector in Ashland is very reasonable... he clearly understands his duty to protect the public from unsanitary conditions, as well as balancing that with allowing individuals to carve out a living, including our very large Amish population. He's not a petty dictator, but sincerely interested in public safety and promoting the welfare of, and opportunities for, people in our county. I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
=)
Kk.

 

[Penelope]

I'm coming into this discussion late... sorry for the delay, especially to Penelope!
In Ohio we have very lax rules... I can make dinners (105 meals per week, regardless of whether it's breakfast, lunch or dinner). I can make baked goods and sell them at the Farmer's Market, or even sell them to grocery stores and restaurants. For $10 I can get a Home Bakery License (inspection checks that there is no carpet and no pets). And yet, there are regulations that are inhibiting as well.
We have two forces at work. The state level people are all about regulations and inspections. Yet the public relations side of the State wants to show how they are promoting business and allowing people to get out there and make money (which regulations generally inhibit). The regulatory people also recognize that they can regulate until the cows come home and you'll still get hair in the cookies.
I know all this because I spoke with a person down in Columbus about Home Bakery regulations. Current regulations state that I cannot roast coffee in a little home roaster and sell it at the farmer's market (regardless of the obvious shelf stable nature of the product) unless I have a separate manufacturing facility that meets Good Manufacuting Process regulations (think commercial kitchen on steroids). She frankly acknowledged that she's a regulator, all in favor of regulations, but that the reality is that they can't be everywhere all the time, and that there is pressure from both sides... some who want every food producer to be inspected and others who want to promote business in Ohio and make what regulations we have less cumbersome.
She also acknowledged the problem with inspecting Home Bakeries (and this would apply to B&B's as well) is that her inspectors are entering private residences... aside from not having regular business hours or customer service areas, it could be potentially dangerous for her inspectors. Unlikely that any of them will get assaulted, but I've known nurses who refused to work for at home visitation services (in spite that all clients are pre-screened) for just that reason.
Meanwhile, just as in Maine, all of this is carried out on a local level, county by county. And with 88 counties, the interpretation of regulations and the acual inspections varies by inspector. Our inspector in Ashland is very reasonable... he clearly understands his duty to protect the public from unsanitary conditions, as well as balancing that with allowing individuals to carve out a living, including our very large Amish population. He's not a petty dictator, but sincerely interested in public safety and promoting the welfare of, and opportunities for, people in our county. I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
=)
Kk..

I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
I'm not too sure how much luck was invloved...but blessed- yes! (Us, too)
I think you are right about the little businesses being supported around here. It certainly makes sense when you add that the Amish and their ways play a role in how we are all treated by the inspectors. That helped to connect some very vague dots for me. I think Ohio (and perhaps other states with large Amish populations) are a little more bendable when it comes to kitchens and serving food.
There are MANY Amish homes around here who offer tours and dinners. It is a way for ALL of us to make some money, and in the process employ some people! It seems like we can all use any help we can get.

 

[gillumhouse]

I'm coming into this discussion late... sorry for the delay, especially to Penelope!
In Ohio we have very lax rules... I can make dinners (105 meals per week, regardless of whether it's breakfast, lunch or dinner). I can make baked goods and sell them at the Farmer's Market, or even sell them to grocery stores and restaurants. For $10 I can get a Home Bakery License (inspection checks that there is no carpet and no pets). And yet, there are regulations that are inhibiting as well.
We have two forces at work. The state level people are all about regulations and inspections. Yet the public relations side of the State wants to show how they are promoting business and allowing people to get out there and make money (which regulations generally inhibit). The regulatory people also recognize that they can regulate until the cows come home and you'll still get hair in the cookies.
I know all this because I spoke with a person down in Columbus about Home Bakery regulations. Current regulations state that I cannot roast coffee in a little home roaster and sell it at the farmer's market (regardless of the obvious shelf stable nature of the product) unless I have a separate manufacturing facility that meets Good Manufacuting Process regulations (think commercial kitchen on steroids). She frankly acknowledged that she's a regulator, all in favor of regulations, but that the reality is that they can't be everywhere all the time, and that there is pressure from both sides... some who want every food producer to be inspected and others who want to promote business in Ohio and make what regulations we have less cumbersome.
She also acknowledged the problem with inspecting Home Bakeries (and this would apply to B&B's as well) is that her inspectors are entering private residences... aside from not having regular business hours or customer service areas, it could be potentially dangerous for her inspectors. Unlikely that any of them will get assaulted, but I've known nurses who refused to work for at home visitation services (in spite that all clients are pre-screened) for just that reason.
Meanwhile, just as in Maine, all of this is carried out on a local level, county by county. And with 88 counties, the interpretation of regulations and the acual inspections varies by inspector. Our inspector in Ashland is very reasonable... he clearly understands his duty to protect the public from unsanitary conditions, as well as balancing that with allowing individuals to carve out a living, including our very large Amish population. He's not a petty dictator, but sincerely interested in public safety and promoting the welfare of, and opportunities for, people in our county. I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
=)
Kk..

We are a State of 55 States - each Health Inspector (55) and each Deputy Fire Marshal (about 20 I think) have their own Kingdom and do not forget it. They interpret the rules that they inspect by - the Legislature writes them and each County interprets - and it is their interpretation that is going to keep you operating or closed. And do not forget it!

 

[user 26]

is it okay to give an inspector a cookie?
or better still ... breakfast?

 

[JunieBJones (JBJ)]

I'm coming into this discussion late... sorry for the delay, especially to Penelope!
In Ohio we have very lax rules... I can make dinners (105 meals per week, regardless of whether it's breakfast, lunch or dinner). I can make baked goods and sell them at the Farmer's Market, or even sell them to grocery stores and restaurants. For $10 I can get a Home Bakery License (inspection checks that there is no carpet and no pets). And yet, there are regulations that are inhibiting as well.
We have two forces at work. The state level people are all about regulations and inspections. Yet the public relations side of the State wants to show how they are promoting business and allowing people to get out there and make money (which regulations generally inhibit). The regulatory people also recognize that they can regulate until the cows come home and you'll still get hair in the cookies.
I know all this because I spoke with a person down in Columbus about Home Bakery regulations. Current regulations state that I cannot roast coffee in a little home roaster and sell it at the farmer's market (regardless of the obvious shelf stable nature of the product) unless I have a separate manufacturing facility that meets Good Manufacuting Process regulations (think commercial kitchen on steroids). She frankly acknowledged that she's a regulator, all in favor of regulations, but that the reality is that they can't be everywhere all the time, and that there is pressure from both sides... some who want every food producer to be inspected and others who want to promote business in Ohio and make what regulations we have less cumbersome.
She also acknowledged the problem with inspecting Home Bakeries (and this would apply to B&B's as well) is that her inspectors are entering private residences... aside from not having regular business hours or customer service areas, it could be potentially dangerous for her inspectors. Unlikely that any of them will get assaulted, but I've known nurses who refused to work for at home visitation services (in spite that all clients are pre-screened) for just that reason.
Meanwhile, just as in Maine, all of this is carried out on a local level, county by county. And with 88 counties, the interpretation of regulations and the acual inspections varies by inspector. Our inspector in Ashland is very reasonable... he clearly understands his duty to protect the public from unsanitary conditions, as well as balancing that with allowing individuals to carve out a living, including our very large Amish population. He's not a petty dictator, but sincerely interested in public safety and promoting the welfare of, and opportunities for, people in our county. I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
=)
Kk..

I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
I'm not too sure how much luck was invloved...but blessed- yes! (Us, too)
I think you are right about the little businesses being supported around here. It certainly makes sense when you add that the Amish and their ways play a role in how we are all treated by the inspectors. That helped to connect some very vague dots for me. I think Ohio (and perhaps other states with large Amish populations) are a little more bendable when it comes to kitchens and serving food.
There are MANY Amish homes around here who offer tours and dinners. It is a way for ALL of us to make some money, and in the process employ some people! It seems like we can all use any help we can get.
.

I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
I'm not too sure how much luck was invloved...but blessed- yes! (Us, too)
I think you are right about the little businesses being supported around here. It certainly makes sense when you add that the Amish and their ways play a role in how we are all treated by the inspectors. That helped to connect some very vague dots for me. I think Ohio (and perhaps other states with large Amish populations) are a little more bendable when it comes to kitchens and serving food.
There are MANY Amish homes around here who offer tours and dinners. It is a way for ALL of us to make some money, and in the process employ some people! It seems like we can all use any help we can get.

So what you are saying is never eat in an Amish tour/home. No refrigeration. >Just kidding<
See this is the thing people - many places it is a big no no if the eggs have not been inspected USDA and all of that fun stuff. Yet, of course, we ALL know that chicken farms and their treatment of animals ARE THE WORST. So someone who has a few pet hens would have the best safest eggs on the planet.
We have a farmer's market and they are trying to pass a law in our town to allow dairy products to be sold there. It is a big deal.

 

[gillumhouse]

is it okay to give an inspector a cookie?
or better still ... breakfast?

.

Don't tell anyone. Would not want to be accused of bribery.
At Northrop, we had to sign an ethics statement every year. IF we had a family member who worked for one of our suppliers, we were required to declare any gifts or best practices for that - not accept any gifts from that family member (Christmas, birthdays, for the kids.....) Of course members of Congress are presented gifts all the time. We could not even give a donut to a vendor or worse yet, accept one. Truth.

 

[Morticia]

is it okay to give an inspector a cookie?
or better still ... breakfast?

.

is it okay to give an inspector a cookie?
or better still ... breakfast?

Borrowing from the kid's book, If You Give a Mouse a Cookie...
If you give an inspector a cookie, he wants a glass of milk...

 

[Morticia]

I'm coming into this discussion late... sorry for the delay, especially to Penelope!
In Ohio we have very lax rules... I can make dinners (105 meals per week, regardless of whether it's breakfast, lunch or dinner). I can make baked goods and sell them at the Farmer's Market, or even sell them to grocery stores and restaurants. For $10 I can get a Home Bakery License (inspection checks that there is no carpet and no pets). And yet, there are regulations that are inhibiting as well.
We have two forces at work. The state level people are all about regulations and inspections. Yet the public relations side of the State wants to show how they are promoting business and allowing people to get out there and make money (which regulations generally inhibit). The regulatory people also recognize that they can regulate until the cows come home and you'll still get hair in the cookies.
I know all this because I spoke with a person down in Columbus about Home Bakery regulations. Current regulations state that I cannot roast coffee in a little home roaster and sell it at the farmer's market (regardless of the obvious shelf stable nature of the product) unless I have a separate manufacturing facility that meets Good Manufacuting Process regulations (think commercial kitchen on steroids). She frankly acknowledged that she's a regulator, all in favor of regulations, but that the reality is that they can't be everywhere all the time, and that there is pressure from both sides... some who want every food producer to be inspected and others who want to promote business in Ohio and make what regulations we have less cumbersome.
She also acknowledged the problem with inspecting Home Bakeries (and this would apply to B&B's as well) is that her inspectors are entering private residences... aside from not having regular business hours or customer service areas, it could be potentially dangerous for her inspectors. Unlikely that any of them will get assaulted, but I've known nurses who refused to work for at home visitation services (in spite that all clients are pre-screened) for just that reason.
Meanwhile, just as in Maine, all of this is carried out on a local level, county by county. And with 88 counties, the interpretation of regulations and the acual inspections varies by inspector. Our inspector in Ashland is very reasonable... he clearly understands his duty to protect the public from unsanitary conditions, as well as balancing that with allowing individuals to carve out a living, including our very large Amish population. He's not a petty dictator, but sincerely interested in public safety and promoting the welfare of, and opportunities for, people in our county. I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
=)
Kk..

I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
I'm not too sure how much luck was invloved...but blessed- yes! (Us, too)
I think you are right about the little businesses being supported around here. It certainly makes sense when you add that the Amish and their ways play a role in how we are all treated by the inspectors. That helped to connect some very vague dots for me. I think Ohio (and perhaps other states with large Amish populations) are a little more bendable when it comes to kitchens and serving food.
There are MANY Amish homes around here who offer tours and dinners. It is a way for ALL of us to make some money, and in the process employ some people! It seems like we can all use any help we can get.
.

I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
I'm not too sure how much luck was invloved...but blessed- yes! (Us, too)
I think you are right about the little businesses being supported around here. It certainly makes sense when you add that the Amish and their ways play a role in how we are all treated by the inspectors. That helped to connect some very vague dots for me. I think Ohio (and perhaps other states with large Amish populations) are a little more bendable when it comes to kitchens and serving food.
There are MANY Amish homes around here who offer tours and dinners. It is a way for ALL of us to make some money, and in the process employ some people! It seems like we can all use any help we can get.

So what you are saying is never eat in an Amish tour/home. No refrigeration. >Just kidding<
See this is the thing people - many places it is a big no no if the eggs have not been inspected USDA and all of that fun stuff. Yet, of course, we ALL know that chicken farms and their treatment of animals ARE THE WORST. So someone who has a few pet hens would have the best safest eggs on the planet.
We have a farmer's market and they are trying to pass a law in our town to allow dairy products to be sold there. It is a big deal.
.

I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
I'm not too sure how much luck was invloved...but blessed- yes! (Us, too)
I think you are right about the little businesses being supported around here. It certainly makes sense when you add that the Amish and their ways play a role in how we are all treated by the inspectors. That helped to connect some very vague dots for me. I think Ohio (and perhaps other states with large Amish populations) are a little more bendable when it comes to kitchens and serving food.
There are MANY Amish homes around here who offer tours and dinners. It is a way for ALL of us to make some money, and in the process employ some people! It seems like we can all use any help we can get.

So what you are saying is never eat in an Amish tour/home. No refrigeration. >Just kidding<
See this is the thing people - many places it is a big no no if the eggs have not been inspected USDA and all of that fun stuff. Yet, of course, we ALL know that chicken farms and their treatment of animals ARE THE WORST. So someone who has a few pet hens would have the best safest eggs on the planet.
We have a farmer's market and they are trying to pass a law in our town to allow dairy products to be sold there. It is a big deal.

I am not allowed to buy ANY produce that is served to guests if it does not come from an 'inspected' facility. So the very nice family down the road who have free range chickens? Sorry, no eggs from them, no cheese from their new dairy, no yogurt, no nothin'. The folks at the farmers market? Not inspected so I cannot serve FRESH cured bacon right from the farm, but I CAN serve the stuff that is full of whatever.
The farm where I get MY food? Cannot serve to guests.
Lots of people do not refrigerate eggs. Cheese is kept on the sideboard in French households. (Then, again, they eat it quickly!) I don't refrigerate butter once I've opened it. If we all went back to eating 'real' food we'd stop being so afraid of our food!

 

[Sanctuary]

I'm coming into this discussion late... sorry for the delay, especially to Penelope!
In Ohio we have very lax rules... I can make dinners (105 meals per week, regardless of whether it's breakfast, lunch or dinner). I can make baked goods and sell them at the Farmer's Market, or even sell them to grocery stores and restaurants. For $10 I can get a Home Bakery License (inspection checks that there is no carpet and no pets). And yet, there are regulations that are inhibiting as well.
We have two forces at work. The state level people are all about regulations and inspections. Yet the public relations side of the State wants to show how they are promoting business and allowing people to get out there and make money (which regulations generally inhibit). The regulatory people also recognize that they can regulate until the cows come home and you'll still get hair in the cookies.
I know all this because I spoke with a person down in Columbus about Home Bakery regulations. Current regulations state that I cannot roast coffee in a little home roaster and sell it at the farmer's market (regardless of the obvious shelf stable nature of the product) unless I have a separate manufacturing facility that meets Good Manufacuting Process regulations (think commercial kitchen on steroids). She frankly acknowledged that she's a regulator, all in favor of regulations, but that the reality is that they can't be everywhere all the time, and that there is pressure from both sides... some who want every food producer to be inspected and others who want to promote business in Ohio and make what regulations we have less cumbersome.
She also acknowledged the problem with inspecting Home Bakeries (and this would apply to B&B's as well) is that her inspectors are entering private residences... aside from not having regular business hours or customer service areas, it could be potentially dangerous for her inspectors. Unlikely that any of them will get assaulted, but I've known nurses who refused to work for at home visitation services (in spite that all clients are pre-screened) for just that reason.
Meanwhile, just as in Maine, all of this is carried out on a local level, county by county. And with 88 counties, the interpretation of regulations and the acual inspections varies by inspector. Our inspector in Ashland is very reasonable... he clearly understands his duty to protect the public from unsanitary conditions, as well as balancing that with allowing individuals to carve out a living, including our very large Amish population. He's not a petty dictator, but sincerely interested in public safety and promoting the welfare of, and opportunities for, people in our county. I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
=)
Kk..

I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
I'm not too sure how much luck was invloved...but blessed- yes! (Us, too)
I think you are right about the little businesses being supported around here. It certainly makes sense when you add that the Amish and their ways play a role in how we are all treated by the inspectors. That helped to connect some very vague dots for me. I think Ohio (and perhaps other states with large Amish populations) are a little more bendable when it comes to kitchens and serving food.
There are MANY Amish homes around here who offer tours and dinners. It is a way for ALL of us to make some money, and in the process employ some people! It seems like we can all use any help we can get.
.

I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
I'm not too sure how much luck was invloved...but blessed- yes! (Us, too)
I think you are right about the little businesses being supported around here. It certainly makes sense when you add that the Amish and their ways play a role in how we are all treated by the inspectors. That helped to connect some very vague dots for me. I think Ohio (and perhaps other states with large Amish populations) are a little more bendable when it comes to kitchens and serving food.
There are MANY Amish homes around here who offer tours and dinners. It is a way for ALL of us to make some money, and in the process employ some people! It seems like we can all use any help we can get.

So what you are saying is never eat in an Amish tour/home. No refrigeration. >Just kidding<
See this is the thing people - many places it is a big no no if the eggs have not been inspected USDA and all of that fun stuff. Yet, of course, we ALL know that chicken farms and their treatment of animals ARE THE WORST. So someone who has a few pet hens would have the best safest eggs on the planet.
We have a farmer's market and they are trying to pass a law in our town to allow dairy products to be sold there. It is a big deal.
.

I feel very lucky and blessed to have ended up where I did!
I'm not too sure how much luck was invloved...but blessed- yes! (Us, too)
I think you are right about the little businesses being supported around here. It certainly makes sense when you add that the Amish and their ways play a role in how we are all treated by the inspectors. That helped to connect some very vague dots for me. I think Ohio (and perhaps other states with large Amish populations) are a little more bendable when it comes to kitchens and serving food.
There are MANY Amish homes around here who offer tours and dinners. It is a way for ALL of us to make some money, and in the process employ some people! It seems like we can all use any help we can get.

So what you are saying is never eat in an Amish tour/home. No refrigeration. >Just kidding<
See this is the thing people - many places it is a big no no if the eggs have not been inspected USDA and all of that fun stuff. Yet, of course, we ALL know that chicken farms and their treatment of animals ARE THE WORST. So someone who has a few pet hens would have the best safest eggs on the planet.
We have a farmer's market and they are trying to pass a law in our town to allow dairy products to be sold there. It is a big deal.

I am not allowed to buy ANY produce that is served to guests if it does not come from an 'inspected' facility. So the very nice family down the road who have free range chickens? Sorry, no eggs from them, no cheese from their new dairy, no yogurt, no nothin'. The folks at the farmers market? Not inspected so I cannot serve FRESH cured bacon right from the farm, but I CAN serve the stuff that is full of whatever.
The farm where I get MY food? Cannot serve to guests.
Lots of people do not refrigerate eggs. Cheese is kept on the sideboard in French households. (Then, again, they eat it quickly!) I don't refrigerate butter once I've opened it. If we all went back to eating 'real' food we'd stop being so afraid of our food!
.

This one of those areas where I'm happy to be in that "gray" area. As a charteryacht doing B&B and charters, rather than a land-based, bricks & mortar establishment, I'm not required to undergo do any inspections and I can serve all the meals I want (with a cat onboard and carpet! LOL). Heck, I can even serve alcohol, but I just can't sell it which I don't. It's included in the charter fee - we are an all-inclusive deal. The only inspections to which I am subject is by the Coast Guard and they are more interested in how many fire extinguishers and life vests I have, and to where our toilets are flushing. They could care less where I bought the groceries of what I'm doing with them. So, I feel lucky in this respect, but trust me, I have a full set of headaches that most of you will never endure.
Still, I just don't get it...serving a meal is serving a meal. Why should land based establishments be held to a higher standard than its "mobile" equal? Haul me out and put me on jack stands in a boatyard, and I can't do squat without licenses and inspections. I can see the difference between a restaurant serving hundreds or thousands in a day, but you and I aren't doing anything different - we're serving our overnight guests with a meal. We're not opening our doors to walk-in dining guests (at least I don't think most of you want to do that). Heck, I won't even take a walk-up overnight guest - advance reservations only.