Speaking of Innsanity

[Joey Camb]

I think most of us correct me if I am wrong really like what we do most of the time and I have worked in all sorts of jobs but being my own boss best even if I do have to work twice as hard anything I get is mine. I used to work in a salary job in a hotel and however many hours I worked I was paid the same. They used to call me out from home at 10pm at night to fight fires and I was never even thanked. At least if there is a problem here I am on site lol.

 

[Morticia]

I think most of us correct me if I am wrong really like what we do most of the time and I have worked in all sorts of jobs but being my own boss best even if I do have to work twice as hard anything I get is mine. I used to work in a salary job in a hotel and however many hours I worked I was paid the same. They used to call me out from home at 10pm at night to fight fires and I was never even thanked. At least if there is a problem here I am on site lol..

Yeah, that's the big secret...we're working for ourselves and no matter how many corporate execs say you should think about your job as 'owning a piece of the business,' you don't, they do.

 

[JBloggs]

If you are thinking of selling your inn as a business, closing rather than having an innsitter can hurt your revenue numbers. One of the inns we looked at before we bought ours closed for Monday and Tuesday every week - the owners went to a cabin. It did sell eventually but as a private residence. We've had the same problem - closing for two weeks about a month before potential buyers looked at our numbers hurt our revenue picture, even though the overall annual revenue was best ever..

A broker should be able to explain those numbers properly to a buyer. We heard that sort of thing in a lot of places, 'Well, the sellers choose to close for such and such, and that's a place you can improve the business.' (Not saying your biz needs improving as you said yourself it was a fantastic season.)
When we bought here, the owners never closed. We found out later, from guests, that they would hire innsitters but they never told us that. What they told us was, 'you can't close and lose money.' Obviously, we don't take that to heart and we close for a variety of reasons.
If a day is handed to me in season, I'll take it. But I don't opt to close in season. We find you lose 'traction' when you that. Weird but true.
.

A broker should be able to explain those numbers properly to a buyer.

Unfortunately that was not our experience with the buyers' broker. We also had the issue that things we choose to hire out (laundry, housekeeping, etc.) because DH has in the last two years had the opportunity to do software work. We decided he should take an ongoing project which he was uniquely qualified for so that we could start building an alternative income as we transition out of innkeeping. Different owners (and us for the first six years) could do those things themselves and keep the income. This is not the way all brokers work, but it is the way that this one works. Unfortunately, he is very active in our region and we suspect that is hurting our selling position now.
We may still close for a day or so when it makes sense, like on our 20th anniversary next month. But for extended periods we will use innsitters. That really should have been disclosed to you, and it will be to any of our prospective buyers.
.

Interesting how different the experiences with brokers has been. Our broker told us it was none of our business how the innkeepers spent the money they made. ie- housekeeping, sending the laundry out, landscapers, etc. Basically, what we were told was- here's the money they made, you figure out if you can make it work with what your expenses will be. (And us not even knowing what the expenses might be! How much does a housekeeper make, for example? Lawn mowing? Snow plowing? All of it was an unknown.)
The only thing they told us about was how much they spent on food. Everything else was 'optional'- housekeeping, maintenance, laundry, all of it.
.

As an inn that is for sale, from experience I can say: The first thing people want to know when they inquire are the operating expenses. They also want costs for taxes, utilities, etc.
Oddly enough not a one has asked us how much a breakfast costs, not one.
.

As an inn that is for sale, from experience I can say: The first thing people want to know when they inquire are the operating expenses. They also want costs for taxes, utilities, etc.
Oddly enough not a one has asked us how much a breakfast costs, not one.

We went to the town hall to find out taxes, etc. We wanted to know what the town had the property appraised at.
Otherwise, in re expenses, we were told it all depends on how you operate the business what your expenses will be. We could choose a much more elaborate or a much simpler breakfast, but here's what they spent (but not 'here's what they made for breakfast.')
I would have to go look at the spreadsheets to see what sort of info we did have given to us. Utilites may have been included. But I do know that the expenses that were considered 'optional' as I mentioned were excluded. The reason given was we may decide to not buy new sheets, towels, etc, so it was irrelevant what they PO's paid for those things. Or we might decide to completely renovate everything, again making what the PO's paid for things they bought irrelevant.
.

OPERATING expenses. Not meaning how much they spent on sheets etc,not meaning how much it cost to renovate a bathroom either, operating ie day-to-day expenses.
I have these all ready for any inquiries, and they do inquire about this, as mentioned. How much are the electric bills each month? How much is the water and sewer and garbage per month? How much for cable, wifi, how much for housekeepings, how much for landscaping maintenance? How much for room flowers? Snacks? These are easy enough figures to show for the past few years of costs from the tax returns, not something we need to guess or not disclose (hide) as some P.O's did.
I can pop them right out, as well as all the directories (that work and don't seem to work) marketing, advertising expenses, URL referrals, etc
The more inn-fo the better!

 

[JBloggs]

Okay so in a nutshell we work weeks or months without a day off because we like to because we are the boss and we say so. It is fun, we don't work for anyone else - other than SERVING GUESTS. The guests are all perfect, our families and relationships with spouses and S/O are perfect and its all rosy. If we have the flu and are sick as a dog we keep on working because it is OUR business and we like it that way! We love the stress, we love the crumbling bodies and holes in our stomach, we love the fact that even if we did have a day off we would be too dang tired to do anything worthwhile anyway.
Thanks for clearing up my wrongful thinking. UGH!
(Yeah, we're all in this together - some are just more truthful than others or maybe they love never having a day off, could be that! Did I expect anyone to actually say it sucked? Nope.)
Yes this was all spawned by my irritation with the "I can buy up struggling B&B's and just flip them, just like that, like a light switch, no work, no stress, nothing...easy peasy" Dream the dream.

 

[The Farmers Daughter]

Okay so in a nutshell we work weeks or months without a day off because we like to because we are the boss and we say so. It is fun, we don't work for anyone else - other than SERVING GUESTS. The guests are all perfect, our families and relationships with spouses and S/O are perfect and its all rosy. If we have the flu and are sick as a dog we keep on working because it is OUR business and we like it that way! We love the stress, we love the crumbling bodies and holes in our stomach, we love the fact that even if we did have a day off we would be too dang tired to do anything worthwhile anyway.
Thanks for clearing up my wrongful thinking. UGH!
(Yeah, we're all in this together - some are just more truthful than others or maybe they love never having a day off, could be that! Did I expect anyone to actually say it sucked? Nope.)
Yes this was all spawned by my irritation with the "I can buy up struggling B&B's and just flip them, just like that, like a light switch, no work, no stress, nothing...easy peasy" Dream the dream..

Okay so in a nutshell we work weeks or months without a day off because we like to because we are the boss and we say so. It is fun, we don't work for anyone else - other than SERVING GUESTS. The guests are all perfect, our families and relationships with spouses and S/O are perfect and its all rosy. If we have the flu and are sick as a dog we keep on working because it is OUR business and we like it that way! We love the stress, we love the crumbling bodies and holes in our stomach, we love the fact that even if we did have a day off we would be too dang tired to do anything worthwhile anyway.
Thanks for clearing up my wrongful thinking. UGH!
(Yeah, we're all in this together - some are just more truthful than others or maybe they love never having a day off, could be that! Did I expect anyone to actually say it sucked? Nope.)
Yes this was all spawned by my irritation with the "I can buy up struggling B&B's and just flip them, just like that, like a light switch, no work, no stress, nothing...easy peasy" Dream the dream.

You left out the joy of discovery when you find you have been developing an ulcer.

 

[Joey Camb]

Okay so in a nutshell we work weeks or months without a day off because we like to because we are the boss and we say so. It is fun, we don't work for anyone else - other than SERVING GUESTS. The guests are all perfect, our families and relationships with spouses and S/O are perfect and its all rosy. If we have the flu and are sick as a dog we keep on working because it is OUR business and we like it that way! We love the stress, we love the crumbling bodies and holes in our stomach, we love the fact that even if we did have a day off we would be too dang tired to do anything worthwhile anyway.
Thanks for clearing up my wrongful thinking. UGH!
(Yeah, we're all in this together - some are just more truthful than others or maybe they love never having a day off, could be that! Did I expect anyone to actually say it sucked? Nope.)
Yes this was all spawned by my irritation with the "I can buy up struggling B&B's and just flip them, just like that, like a light switch, no work, no stress, nothing...easy peasy" Dream the dream..

You should know by now we are all crackers! You only just figuring it out?

 

[Innkeeper To Go]

If you are thinking of selling your inn as a business, closing rather than having an innsitter can hurt your revenue numbers. One of the inns we looked at before we bought ours closed for Monday and Tuesday every week - the owners went to a cabin. It did sell eventually but as a private residence. We've had the same problem - closing for two weeks about a month before potential buyers looked at our numbers hurt our revenue picture, even though the overall annual revenue was best ever..

A broker should be able to explain those numbers properly to a buyer. We heard that sort of thing in a lot of places, 'Well, the sellers choose to close for such and such, and that's a place you can improve the business.' (Not saying your biz needs improving as you said yourself it was a fantastic season.)
When we bought here, the owners never closed. We found out later, from guests, that they would hire innsitters but they never told us that. What they told us was, 'you can't close and lose money.' Obviously, we don't take that to heart and we close for a variety of reasons.
If a day is handed to me in season, I'll take it. But I don't opt to close in season. We find you lose 'traction' when you that. Weird but true.
.

A broker should be able to explain those numbers properly to a buyer.

Unfortunately that was not our experience with the buyers' broker. We also had the issue that things we choose to hire out (laundry, housekeeping, etc.) because DH has in the last two years had the opportunity to do software work. We decided he should take an ongoing project which he was uniquely qualified for so that we could start building an alternative income as we transition out of innkeeping. Different owners (and us for the first six years) could do those things themselves and keep the income. This is not the way all brokers work, but it is the way that this one works. Unfortunately, he is very active in our region and we suspect that is hurting our selling position now.
We may still close for a day or so when it makes sense, like on our 20th anniversary next month. But for extended periods we will use innsitters. That really should have been disclosed to you, and it will be to any of our prospective buyers.
.

Interesting how different the experiences with brokers has been. Our broker told us it was none of our business how the innkeepers spent the money they made. ie- housekeeping, sending the laundry out, landscapers, etc. Basically, what we were told was- here's the money they made, you figure out if you can make it work with what your expenses will be. (And us not even knowing what the expenses might be! How much does a housekeeper make, for example? Lawn mowing? Snow plowing? All of it was an unknown.)
The only thing they told us about was how much they spent on food. Everything else was 'optional'- housekeeping, maintenance, laundry, all of it.
.

As an inn that is for sale, from experience I can say: The first thing people want to know when they inquire are the operating expenses. They also want costs for taxes, utilities, etc.
Oddly enough not a one has asked us how much a breakfast costs, not one.
.

As an inn that is for sale, from experience I can say: The first thing people want to know when they inquire are the operating expenses. They also want costs for taxes, utilities, etc.
Oddly enough not a one has asked us how much a breakfast costs, not one.

We went to the town hall to find out taxes, etc. We wanted to know what the town had the property appraised at.
Otherwise, in re expenses, we were told it all depends on how you operate the business what your expenses will be. We could choose a much more elaborate or a much simpler breakfast, but here's what they spent (but not 'here's what they made for breakfast.')
I would have to go look at the spreadsheets to see what sort of info we did have given to us. Utilites may have been included. But I do know that the expenses that were considered 'optional' as I mentioned were excluded. The reason given was we may decide to not buy new sheets, towels, etc, so it was irrelevant what they PO's paid for those things. Or we might decide to completely renovate everything, again making what the PO's paid for things they bought irrelevant.
.

OPERATING expenses. Not meaning how much they spent on sheets etc,not meaning how much it cost to renovate a bathroom either, operating ie day-to-day expenses.
I have these all ready for any inquiries, and they do inquire about this, as mentioned. How much are the electric bills each month? How much is the water and sewer and garbage per month? How much for cable, wifi, how much for housekeepings, how much for landscaping maintenance? How much for room flowers? Snacks? These are easy enough figures to show for the past few years of costs from the tax returns, not something we need to guess or not disclose (hide) as some P.O's did.
I can pop them right out, as well as all the directories (that work and don't seem to work) marketing, advertising expenses, URL referrals, etc
The more inn-fo the better!
.

I agree.
And it doesn't really matter that the new owners may very well do things differently.
Prospective buyers still have a good reason to know exactly what's in those operating expenses so they can reasonably know just how they will do things differently.
Otherwise, they're just shopping in the dark.
Brokers who encourage their clients to withold vital information from prospective buyers aren't doing them any favors.
Put it all out there. If it's good, all the better. If it's not good, let folks know where there is room for improvement.

 

[muirford]

If you are thinking of selling your inn as a business, closing rather than having an innsitter can hurt your revenue numbers. One of the inns we looked at before we bought ours closed for Monday and Tuesday every week - the owners went to a cabin. It did sell eventually but as a private residence. We've had the same problem - closing for two weeks about a month before potential buyers looked at our numbers hurt our revenue picture, even though the overall annual revenue was best ever..

A broker should be able to explain those numbers properly to a buyer. We heard that sort of thing in a lot of places, 'Well, the sellers choose to close for such and such, and that's a place you can improve the business.' (Not saying your biz needs improving as you said yourself it was a fantastic season.)
When we bought here, the owners never closed. We found out later, from guests, that they would hire innsitters but they never told us that. What they told us was, 'you can't close and lose money.' Obviously, we don't take that to heart and we close for a variety of reasons.
If a day is handed to me in season, I'll take it. But I don't opt to close in season. We find you lose 'traction' when you that. Weird but true.
.

A broker should be able to explain those numbers properly to a buyer.

Unfortunately that was not our experience with the buyers' broker. We also had the issue that things we choose to hire out (laundry, housekeeping, etc.) because DH has in the last two years had the opportunity to do software work. We decided he should take an ongoing project which he was uniquely qualified for so that we could start building an alternative income as we transition out of innkeeping. Different owners (and us for the first six years) could do those things themselves and keep the income. This is not the way all brokers work, but it is the way that this one works. Unfortunately, he is very active in our region and we suspect that is hurting our selling position now.
We may still close for a day or so when it makes sense, like on our 20th anniversary next month. But for extended periods we will use innsitters. That really should have been disclosed to you, and it will be to any of our prospective buyers.
.

Interesting how different the experiences with brokers has been. Our broker told us it was none of our business how the innkeepers spent the money they made. ie- housekeeping, sending the laundry out, landscapers, etc. Basically, what we were told was- here's the money they made, you figure out if you can make it work with what your expenses will be. (And us not even knowing what the expenses might be! How much does a housekeeper make, for example? Lawn mowing? Snow plowing? All of it was an unknown.)
The only thing they told us about was how much they spent on food. Everything else was 'optional'- housekeeping, maintenance, laundry, all of it.
.

As an inn that is for sale, from experience I can say: The first thing people want to know when they inquire are the operating expenses. They also want costs for taxes, utilities, etc.
Oddly enough not a one has asked us how much a breakfast costs, not one.
.

As an inn that is for sale, from experience I can say: The first thing people want to know when they inquire are the operating expenses. They also want costs for taxes, utilities, etc.
Oddly enough not a one has asked us how much a breakfast costs, not one.

We went to the town hall to find out taxes, etc. We wanted to know what the town had the property appraised at.
Otherwise, in re expenses, we were told it all depends on how you operate the business what your expenses will be. We could choose a much more elaborate or a much simpler breakfast, but here's what they spent (but not 'here's what they made for breakfast.')
I would have to go look at the spreadsheets to see what sort of info we did have given to us. Utilites may have been included. But I do know that the expenses that were considered 'optional' as I mentioned were excluded. The reason given was we may decide to not buy new sheets, towels, etc, so it was irrelevant what they PO's paid for those things. Or we might decide to completely renovate everything, again making what the PO's paid for things they bought irrelevant.
.

OPERATING expenses. Not meaning how much they spent on sheets etc,not meaning how much it cost to renovate a bathroom either, operating ie day-to-day expenses.
I have these all ready for any inquiries, and they do inquire about this, as mentioned. How much are the electric bills each month? How much is the water and sewer and garbage per month? How much for cable, wifi, how much for housekeepings, how much for landscaping maintenance? How much for room flowers? Snacks? These are easy enough figures to show for the past few years of costs from the tax returns, not something we need to guess or not disclose (hide) as some P.O's did.
I can pop them right out, as well as all the directories (that work and don't seem to work) marketing, advertising expenses, URL referrals, etc
The more inn-fo the better!
.

I guess I should be more clear about my comments. I would not now, with the inn for sale, close for two weeks. If I want to take a vacation like that, I'll get an innsitter. That lost revenue did not look good for a potential buyer and the broker, even with the explanation.
I would never not disclose any and all of our expenses, including innsitting and what we spend on linens each year. The frustrating part is that some brokers look at those things differently than others, and thus advise their clients differently. The current agent we are working with independently came up with his valuation of the inn, using all our real numbers and calculating it with several different methods. His valuation is about 15% higher than his colleague.

 

[happyjacks]

Here's some truthfullness for aspiring innkeepers:
Don't expect to take regularly scheduled days off every week, all year. Not if you expect the B&B to pay your mortgage, etc. Not unless you are in a location that brings in steady, consistent guests/revenue. Most B&B's are subject to fluctuating income over the course of the year (ie busy and slow times). Be prepared to work a lot during the busy times, with fewer days off or mostly unplanned days off (as in "hey, we're empty on tuesday, let's mark it off and spend the day __").
Vacations and time off can be scheduled during the busy times, but be prepared to pay an innsitter or to lose revenue from lost bookings. That can be hard to do financially, especially in the early years.
So be sure to make the most of the time off that will come in the slow season. Depending on where you are, there could be lots of it. That, too, can be hard to manage financially, especially in the early years. But once you adjust to the rhythm of it, it can be great.
That's the reality of this business for many innkeepers. For some people, in some situations, this sucks. But for others, the idea of only having weekends and 3 weeks/year off from work sucks even more. Honestly.

 

[Morticia]

If you are thinking of selling your inn as a business, closing rather than having an innsitter can hurt your revenue numbers. One of the inns we looked at before we bought ours closed for Monday and Tuesday every week - the owners went to a cabin. It did sell eventually but as a private residence. We've had the same problem - closing for two weeks about a month before potential buyers looked at our numbers hurt our revenue picture, even though the overall annual revenue was best ever..

A broker should be able to explain those numbers properly to a buyer. We heard that sort of thing in a lot of places, 'Well, the sellers choose to close for such and such, and that's a place you can improve the business.' (Not saying your biz needs improving as you said yourself it was a fantastic season.)
When we bought here, the owners never closed. We found out later, from guests, that they would hire innsitters but they never told us that. What they told us was, 'you can't close and lose money.' Obviously, we don't take that to heart and we close for a variety of reasons.
If a day is handed to me in season, I'll take it. But I don't opt to close in season. We find you lose 'traction' when you that. Weird but true.
.

A broker should be able to explain those numbers properly to a buyer.

Unfortunately that was not our experience with the buyers' broker. We also had the issue that things we choose to hire out (laundry, housekeeping, etc.) because DH has in the last two years had the opportunity to do software work. We decided he should take an ongoing project which he was uniquely qualified for so that we could start building an alternative income as we transition out of innkeeping. Different owners (and us for the first six years) could do those things themselves and keep the income. This is not the way all brokers work, but it is the way that this one works. Unfortunately, he is very active in our region and we suspect that is hurting our selling position now.
We may still close for a day or so when it makes sense, like on our 20th anniversary next month. But for extended periods we will use innsitters. That really should have been disclosed to you, and it will be to any of our prospective buyers.
.

Interesting how different the experiences with brokers has been. Our broker told us it was none of our business how the innkeepers spent the money they made. ie- housekeeping, sending the laundry out, landscapers, etc. Basically, what we were told was- here's the money they made, you figure out if you can make it work with what your expenses will be. (And us not even knowing what the expenses might be! How much does a housekeeper make, for example? Lawn mowing? Snow plowing? All of it was an unknown.)
The only thing they told us about was how much they spent on food. Everything else was 'optional'- housekeeping, maintenance, laundry, all of it.
.

As an inn that is for sale, from experience I can say: The first thing people want to know when they inquire are the operating expenses. They also want costs for taxes, utilities, etc.
Oddly enough not a one has asked us how much a breakfast costs, not one.
.

As an inn that is for sale, from experience I can say: The first thing people want to know when they inquire are the operating expenses. They also want costs for taxes, utilities, etc.
Oddly enough not a one has asked us how much a breakfast costs, not one.

We went to the town hall to find out taxes, etc. We wanted to know what the town had the property appraised at.
Otherwise, in re expenses, we were told it all depends on how you operate the business what your expenses will be. We could choose a much more elaborate or a much simpler breakfast, but here's what they spent (but not 'here's what they made for breakfast.')
I would have to go look at the spreadsheets to see what sort of info we did have given to us. Utilites may have been included. But I do know that the expenses that were considered 'optional' as I mentioned were excluded. The reason given was we may decide to not buy new sheets, towels, etc, so it was irrelevant what they PO's paid for those things. Or we might decide to completely renovate everything, again making what the PO's paid for things they bought irrelevant.
.

OPERATING expenses. Not meaning how much they spent on sheets etc,not meaning how much it cost to renovate a bathroom either, operating ie day-to-day expenses.
I have these all ready for any inquiries, and they do inquire about this, as mentioned. How much are the electric bills each month? How much is the water and sewer and garbage per month? How much for cable, wifi, how much for housekeepings, how much for landscaping maintenance? How much for room flowers? Snacks? These are easy enough figures to show for the past few years of costs from the tax returns, not something we need to guess or not disclose (hide) as some P.O's did.
I can pop them right out, as well as all the directories (that work and don't seem to work) marketing, advertising expenses, URL referrals, etc
The more inn-fo the better!
.

I agree.
And it doesn't really matter that the new owners may very well do things differently.
Prospective buyers still have a good reason to know exactly what's in those operating expenses so they can reasonably know just how they will do things differently.
Otherwise, they're just shopping in the dark.
Brokers who encourage their clients to withold vital information from prospective buyers aren't doing them any favors.
Put it all out there. If it's good, all the better. If it's not good, let folks know where there is room for improvement.
.

I just went and dug up the 'prospectuses' we were given for 2 of the properties we looked at. 2 completely different states and 2 completely different statements. One statement gives everything down to the penny, including housekeeping, laundry, guest transportation (?), food, utilities, etc.
This one has $0 for housekeeping (they had a housekeeper) but is quite clear on how much for room supplies, linen replacement ($20), food, utilities, dues, subscriptions, maketing, postage, repairs, propoerty taxes & B&B insurance.
It seems to depend who the broker is.

 

[Samster]

Here's some truthfullness for aspiring innkeepers:
Don't expect to take regularly scheduled days off every week, all year. Not if you expect the B&B to pay your mortgage, etc. Not unless you are in a location that brings in steady, consistent guests/revenue. Most B&B's are subject to fluctuating income over the course of the year (ie busy and slow times). Be prepared to work a lot during the busy times, with fewer days off or mostly unplanned days off (as in "hey, we're empty on tuesday, let's mark it off and spend the day __").
Vacations and time off can be scheduled during the busy times, but be prepared to pay an innsitter or to lose revenue from lost bookings. That can be hard to do financially, especially in the early years.
So be sure to make the most of the time off that will come in the slow season. Depending on where you are, there could be lots of it. That, too, can be hard to manage financially, especially in the early years. But once you adjust to the rhythm of it, it can be great.
That's the reality of this business for many innkeepers. For some people, in some situations, this sucks. But for others, the idea of only having weekends and 3 weeks/year off from work sucks even more. Honestly..

Well let me correct one fallacy of your statement, HappyJacks. If you have someone who is still working in another full-time job (which many, many innkeeper duos do) as part of your innkeeping management team who technically has 5 weeks vacation, weekends off, and sick time to boot, they might get tired of not being able to take their time off when they want to because they are working in the business too. When it's slow for their other paying job and they can take the time off and it doesn't gel with your inn's slower times, that can be a problem.
Oh, and then they have to use their well earned vacation time to take time off to do a major project on a 100 year old house.
Let's not sugar coat it any of it....owning an inn (especially an historic building or buildings) is very, very hard work and you may NOT get any real time off except for snippets here and there. And, btw lest we forget...most of us are still checking voicemail, e-mail, rez systems, etc. when we are supposedly "off". We are no better than the corporate folks.

 

[JBloggs]

"But for others, the idea of only having weekends and 3 weeks/year off from work sucks even more. "

 

[Samster]

If you are thinking of selling your inn as a business, closing rather than having an innsitter can hurt your revenue numbers. One of the inns we looked at before we bought ours closed for Monday and Tuesday every week - the owners went to a cabin. It did sell eventually but as a private residence. We've had the same problem - closing for two weeks about a month before potential buyers looked at our numbers hurt our revenue picture, even though the overall annual revenue was best ever..

A broker should be able to explain those numbers properly to a buyer. We heard that sort of thing in a lot of places, 'Well, the sellers choose to close for such and such, and that's a place you can improve the business.' (Not saying your biz needs improving as you said yourself it was a fantastic season.)
When we bought here, the owners never closed. We found out later, from guests, that they would hire innsitters but they never told us that. What they told us was, 'you can't close and lose money.' Obviously, we don't take that to heart and we close for a variety of reasons.
If a day is handed to me in season, I'll take it. But I don't opt to close in season. We find you lose 'traction' when you that. Weird but true.
.

A broker should be able to explain those numbers properly to a buyer.

Unfortunately that was not our experience with the buyers' broker. We also had the issue that things we choose to hire out (laundry, housekeeping, etc.) because DH has in the last two years had the opportunity to do software work. We decided he should take an ongoing project which he was uniquely qualified for so that we could start building an alternative income as we transition out of innkeeping. Different owners (and us for the first six years) could do those things themselves and keep the income. This is not the way all brokers work, but it is the way that this one works. Unfortunately, he is very active in our region and we suspect that is hurting our selling position now.
We may still close for a day or so when it makes sense, like on our 20th anniversary next month. But for extended periods we will use innsitters. That really should have been disclosed to you, and it will be to any of our prospective buyers.
.

Interesting how different the experiences with brokers has been. Our broker told us it was none of our business how the innkeepers spent the money they made. ie- housekeeping, sending the laundry out, landscapers, etc. Basically, what we were told was- here's the money they made, you figure out if you can make it work with what your expenses will be. (And us not even knowing what the expenses might be! How much does a housekeeper make, for example? Lawn mowing? Snow plowing? All of it was an unknown.)
The only thing they told us about was how much they spent on food. Everything else was 'optional'- housekeeping, maintenance, laundry, all of it.
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As an inn that is for sale, from experience I can say: The first thing people want to know when they inquire are the operating expenses. They also want costs for taxes, utilities, etc.
Oddly enough not a one has asked us how much a breakfast costs, not one.
.

As an inn that is for sale, from experience I can say: The first thing people want to know when they inquire are the operating expenses. They also want costs for taxes, utilities, etc.
Oddly enough not a one has asked us how much a breakfast costs, not one.

We went to the town hall to find out taxes, etc. We wanted to know what the town had the property appraised at.
Otherwise, in re expenses, we were told it all depends on how you operate the business what your expenses will be. We could choose a much more elaborate or a much simpler breakfast, but here's what they spent (but not 'here's what they made for breakfast.')
I would have to go look at the spreadsheets to see what sort of info we did have given to us. Utilites may have been included. But I do know that the expenses that were considered 'optional' as I mentioned were excluded. The reason given was we may decide to not buy new sheets, towels, etc, so it was irrelevant what they PO's paid for those things. Or we might decide to completely renovate everything, again making what the PO's paid for things they bought irrelevant.
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OPERATING expenses. Not meaning how much they spent on sheets etc,not meaning how much it cost to renovate a bathroom either, operating ie day-to-day expenses.
I have these all ready for any inquiries, and they do inquire about this, as mentioned. How much are the electric bills each month? How much is the water and sewer and garbage per month? How much for cable, wifi, how much for housekeepings, how much for landscaping maintenance? How much for room flowers? Snacks? These are easy enough figures to show for the past few years of costs from the tax returns, not something we need to guess or not disclose (hide) as some P.O's did.
I can pop them right out, as well as all the directories (that work and don't seem to work) marketing, advertising expenses, URL referrals, etc
The more inn-fo the better!
.

I guess I should be more clear about my comments. I would not now, with the inn for sale, close for two weeks. If I want to take a vacation like that, I'll get an innsitter. That lost revenue did not look good for a potential buyer and the broker, even with the explanation.
I would never not disclose any and all of our expenses, including innsitting and what we spend on linens each year. The frustrating part is that some brokers look at those things differently than others, and thus advise their clients differently. The current agent we are working with independently came up with his valuation of the inn, using all our real numbers and calculating it with several different methods. His valuation is about 15% higher than his colleague.
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Muirford, makes sense that you'd have an innsitter for longer getaways. I'm sure that you'll give any serious prospective buyer all the info that they need!

 

[happyjacks]

Here's some truthfullness for aspiring innkeepers:
Don't expect to take regularly scheduled days off every week, all year. Not if you expect the B&B to pay your mortgage, etc. Not unless you are in a location that brings in steady, consistent guests/revenue. Most B&B's are subject to fluctuating income over the course of the year (ie busy and slow times). Be prepared to work a lot during the busy times, with fewer days off or mostly unplanned days off (as in "hey, we're empty on tuesday, let's mark it off and spend the day __").
Vacations and time off can be scheduled during the busy times, but be prepared to pay an innsitter or to lose revenue from lost bookings. That can be hard to do financially, especially in the early years.
So be sure to make the most of the time off that will come in the slow season. Depending on where you are, there could be lots of it. That, too, can be hard to manage financially, especially in the early years. But once you adjust to the rhythm of it, it can be great.
That's the reality of this business for many innkeepers. For some people, in some situations, this sucks. But for others, the idea of only having weekends and 3 weeks/year off from work sucks even more. Honestly..

Well let me correct one fallacy of your statement, HappyJacks. If you have someone who is still working in another full-time job (which many, many innkeeper duos do) as part of your innkeeping management team who technically has 5 weeks vacation, weekends off, and sick time to boot, they might get tired of not being able to take their time off when they want to because they are working in the business too. When it's slow for their other paying job and they can take the time off and it doesn't gel with your inn's slower times, that can be a problem.
Oh, and then they have to use their well earned vacation time to take time off to do a major project on a 100 year old house.
Let's not sugar coat it any of it....owning an inn (especially an historic building or buildings) is very, very hard work and you may NOT get any real time off except for snippets here and there. And, btw lest we forget...most of us are still checking voicemail, e-mail, rez systems, etc. when we are supposedly "off". We are no better than the corporate folks.
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How am I sugar coating anything?? I'm saying it IS hard work. And I'm warning newbies that it's unrealistic for them to think they can stave off burnout by scheduling regular days off. Because most likely they won't be able to do that for financial reasons. That's the reality and there's nothing sugary about it.

 

[happyjacks]

"But for others, the idea of only having weekends and 3 weeks/year off from work sucks even more. "

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"But for others, the idea of only having weekends and 3 weeks/year off from work sucks even more. "

Do you really not see how some people can have that perspective? I've been there, in the corporate office, with weekends off (but not always) and three weeks vacation (worked my way up to four weeks) and I did not like it. My husband, being self employed, had a much more erratic schedule and I was envious of it. I hated the 9-5 slog. I would really hate to go back to it now.
Similarly, I know school teachers who have the whole summer off but they think it sucks that they can't take off for a week in January. Go figure!
There are pros and cons to every situation. People have to figure out what works for them.

 

[Country Girl]

This year we are closing for two weeks in June and taking a trip to Alaska. I can't believe we're doing it during our busy period but we are! I can't wait! There will always be bills to pay, but this time we have to spend with our family is rapidly diminishing. Our oldest is getting married in May and won't be joining us. It's the first (of many times to come I'm sure) where we won't be all together. The younger two are still in college so are able to come before work starts for them for the summer.

 

[Copperhead]

Happyjacks
There are pros and cons to every situation. People have to figure out what works for them.Or what you can at least tolerate!!!
When we first opened we both worked full time jobs and did this buz on the weekends only. That was the toughest time as DH also traveled during the week, so the only time we had together was during weekends when we had guests. But we do what we have to do.
When we both left working for the big boys, we traveled very little as we were still building our business and needed each reservation we could get, and developed a plan when our slowest period really is and there for a while we knew that there was one month that we could almost go into hibernation and no one would know so that is when we plan our trips. We do close as we are not in a typical walk-in market and we do take our phone and laptops with us for bookings. For us we are never 100% off.
Again, since we are not a typical walk-in market, if we see a day or two free in the coming week and we feel we need a break, we may take a overnight trip to get a fesh breath of air and then return to do repairs for the second day. These are rare but when they happen they are heaven. Wish we had done this in the first few years but you live and you learn.
Now this works for US, at least for now! - As happy said 'people have to figure out what works for them.'

 

[Morticia]

Happyjacks
There are pros and cons to every situation. People have to figure out what works for them.Or what you can at least tolerate!!!
When we first opened we both worked full time jobs and did this buz on the weekends only. That was the toughest time as DH also traveled during the week, so the only time we had together was during weekends when we had guests. But we do what we have to do.
When we both left working for the big boys, we traveled very little as we were still building our business and needed each reservation we could get, and developed a plan when our slowest period really is and there for a while we knew that there was one month that we could almost go into hibernation and no one would know so that is when we plan our trips. We do close as we are not in a typical walk-in market and we do take our phone and laptops with us for bookings. For us we are never 100% off.
Again, since we are not a typical walk-in market, if we see a day or two free in the coming week and we feel we need a break, we may take a overnight trip to get a fesh breath of air and then return to do repairs for the second day. These are rare but when they happen they are heaven. Wish we had done this in the first few years but you live and you learn.
Now this works for US, at least for now! - As happy said 'people have to figure out what works for them.'.

Have you ever noticed it is really (really) hard to go 'back to work' when you've had one day off in the middle of your busy season? We trip over each other, the whole process just takes so much more effort than being 'on' right straight thru.
Then there are days like today where I 'slept in,' finished a book I was reading, read the paper, started a new book and at 2 PM finally got around to putting a room together from yesterday. I answered one phone call and it was a 'butt dial' and I have no idea who it was but it had to be someone who has my number in their cellphone, right? It was a slow day all around for me. I could have done a million things, but I didn't.

 

[Copperhead]

Happyjacks
There are pros and cons to every situation. People have to figure out what works for them.Or what you can at least tolerate!!!
When we first opened we both worked full time jobs and did this buz on the weekends only. That was the toughest time as DH also traveled during the week, so the only time we had together was during weekends when we had guests. But we do what we have to do.
When we both left working for the big boys, we traveled very little as we were still building our business and needed each reservation we could get, and developed a plan when our slowest period really is and there for a while we knew that there was one month that we could almost go into hibernation and no one would know so that is when we plan our trips. We do close as we are not in a typical walk-in market and we do take our phone and laptops with us for bookings. For us we are never 100% off.
Again, since we are not a typical walk-in market, if we see a day or two free in the coming week and we feel we need a break, we may take a overnight trip to get a fesh breath of air and then return to do repairs for the second day. These are rare but when they happen they are heaven. Wish we had done this in the first few years but you live and you learn.
Now this works for US, at least for now! - As happy said 'people have to figure out what works for them.'.

Have you ever noticed it is really (really) hard to go 'back to work' when you've had one day off in the middle of your busy season? We trip over each other, the whole process just takes so much more effort than being 'on' right straight thru.
Then there are days like today where I 'slept in,' finished a book I was reading, read the paper, started a new book and at 2 PM finally got around to putting a room together from yesterday. I answered one phone call and it was a 'butt dial' and I have no idea who it was but it had to be someone who has my number in their cellphone, right? It was a slow day all around for me. I could have done a million things, but I didn't.
.

Morticia: I could have done a million things, but I didn't. Ahhhh, I cherish the thought!

 

[Samster]

Here's some truthfullness for aspiring innkeepers:
Don't expect to take regularly scheduled days off every week, all year. Not if you expect the B&B to pay your mortgage, etc. Not unless you are in a location that brings in steady, consistent guests/revenue. Most B&B's are subject to fluctuating income over the course of the year (ie busy and slow times). Be prepared to work a lot during the busy times, with fewer days off or mostly unplanned days off (as in "hey, we're empty on tuesday, let's mark it off and spend the day __").
Vacations and time off can be scheduled during the busy times, but be prepared to pay an innsitter or to lose revenue from lost bookings. That can be hard to do financially, especially in the early years.
So be sure to make the most of the time off that will come in the slow season. Depending on where you are, there could be lots of it. That, too, can be hard to manage financially, especially in the early years. But once you adjust to the rhythm of it, it can be great.
That's the reality of this business for many innkeepers. For some people, in some situations, this sucks. But for others, the idea of only having weekends and 3 weeks/year off from work sucks even more. Honestly..

Well let me correct one fallacy of your statement, HappyJacks. If you have someone who is still working in another full-time job (which many, many innkeeper duos do) as part of your innkeeping management team who technically has 5 weeks vacation, weekends off, and sick time to boot, they might get tired of not being able to take their time off when they want to because they are working in the business too. When it's slow for their other paying job and they can take the time off and it doesn't gel with your inn's slower times, that can be a problem.
Oh, and then they have to use their well earned vacation time to take time off to do a major project on a 100 year old house.
Let's not sugar coat it any of it....owning an inn (especially an historic building or buildings) is very, very hard work and you may NOT get any real time off except for snippets here and there. And, btw lest we forget...most of us are still checking voicemail, e-mail, rez systems, etc. when we are supposedly "off". We are no better than the corporate folks.
.

How am I sugar coating anything?? I'm saying it IS hard work. And I'm warning newbies that it's unrealistic for them to think they can stave off burnout by scheduling regular days off. Because most likely they won't be able to do that for financial reasons. That's the reality and there's nothing sugary about it.
.

Let's means let us....the collective us, not you specifically.