First Fraud

[Generic]

Well, I started to think back about this particular guest and I had a guess at what happened. So I asked the guy who's CC was supposedly stolen an indelicate question and well... I was right. And now I also know why that guest left on that particular day from our place.
It appears that this guest apparently steals people CC numbers during short lived sexual encounters (ie one-night stands) and well, he had one the night before he left our place. Of course, I don't know the name of the person that the guest slept with, but I assume that they were the next victim..

Interesting. So, the guy isn't going to claim fraud to his cc company because he might also have to explain how the loser got his cc number. He wants you to pony up because he couldn't keep his pants on. I'm curious now why you should lose out? Maybe the guy got a fairly cheap lesson out of this one.
And you're not sure you really know the name of the person who stayed with you. Do you ask for ID?
(As an aside, I don't really care who did what to whom, I'm concerned that you're being asked to pay for someone else's indiscretion.)
.

No. I wouldn't even consider reversing the charge without a police report or via the CC company. He already reported the fraud, so I'm expecting a chargeback. I've just never been through this.
Earlier today, when I was thinking about things it came to me that this might be the case. And I started the equiry. He was happy enough when I simply told him what we were (since I assume he saw the online charge) and I didn't elaborate or anything.
I actually put together the pieces before he did. But he did in fact have a picture of the person. I told him to submit it to the CC security department. He bought airplane tickets with the card, so they should be able to follow who's name the tickets were in and the passport used to board the plane.
For me, it's the loss of four nights. I will simply wait for the CC to reverse it. But it's really the first time I have ever had even the whiff of a chargeback.
.

Holy cow, that's a big loss. So, are you making any changes to avoid this sort of thing in the future? Just curious what it is we can do to protect ourselves. Because it's obvious the cc company doesn't eat any problem charges, we do. Do we only accept card-in-hand transactions? No third party transactions?
.

Well, I still have to think about it, but I won't do any third-party charges like that again.
I don't really like doing any transactions that aren't card-in-hand in any case. And in Canada we have the chip&pin transactions in any case. And to be honest, they make me feel much more secure and we have less trouble with foreign transactions this way. I wasn't really comfortable with charging people without the card in hand before this and I'm less comfortable with it, now.
At least it was nights when I wasn't full, so I didn't turn away paying guests for this. We have been ripped off three times in our long history of running B&Bs and every single time they guests were American. Not a good record.
.

We have been ripped off three times in our long history of running B&Bs and every single time they guests were American. Not a good record.

E- I'm finally going to have to ask you to stop bashing Americans. You do it rather frequently and it doesn't improve the dialog a bit.
The 'Americans did this' comment didn't add anything to your problem/solution and I find it annoying when you do this. Maybe we could all try to avoid bashing people who are not the same as we are, whatever that is.
If your purpose IS to annoy me or other Americans on this forum, congratulations, you succeeded. If, instead, you like hanging around here and discussing the trials and tribulations of innkeeping and didn't realize you were overly critical of your southern neighbors here's my request- please knock off the American-bashing.
.

It was NEVER my intention, it was just an observation. Among my other observations are that 2 or the 3 were gay. I can't assume anything from that either.... it doesn't mean a thing.
Another observation, we have had 3 fake reviews, one was local, one was from the US and one was an Aussie in the UK. All were English speaking as far as we can tell. Doesn't say a thing, other than an observation.
Please, assume that it's simply observation and I have no intent to bash anyone.

 

[Colleen848]

Well, I started to think back about this particular guest and I had a guess at what happened. So I asked the guy who's CC was supposedly stolen an indelicate question and well... I was right. And now I also know why that guest left on that particular day from our place.
It appears that this guest apparently steals people CC numbers during short lived sexual encounters (ie one-night stands) and well, he had one the night before he left our place. Of course, I don't know the name of the person that the guest slept with, but I assume that they were the next victim..

Interesting. So, the guy isn't going to claim fraud to his cc company because he might also have to explain how the loser got his cc number. He wants you to pony up because he couldn't keep his pants on. I'm curious now why you should lose out? Maybe the guy got a fairly cheap lesson out of this one.
And you're not sure you really know the name of the person who stayed with you. Do you ask for ID?
(As an aside, I don't really care who did what to whom, I'm concerned that you're being asked to pay for someone else's indiscretion.)
.

No. I wouldn't even consider reversing the charge without a police report or via the CC company. He already reported the fraud, so I'm expecting a chargeback. I've just never been through this.
Earlier today, when I was thinking about things it came to me that this might be the case. And I started the equiry. He was happy enough when I simply told him what we were (since I assume he saw the online charge) and I didn't elaborate or anything.
I actually put together the pieces before he did. But he did in fact have a picture of the person. I told him to submit it to the CC security department. He bought airplane tickets with the card, so they should be able to follow who's name the tickets were in and the passport used to board the plane.
For me, it's the loss of four nights. I will simply wait for the CC to reverse it. But it's really the first time I have ever had even the whiff of a chargeback.
.

Holy cow, that's a big loss. So, are you making any changes to avoid this sort of thing in the future? Just curious what it is we can do to protect ourselves. Because it's obvious the cc company doesn't eat any problem charges, we do. Do we only accept card-in-hand transactions? No third party transactions?
.

Well, I still have to think about it, but I won't do any third-party charges like that again.
I don't really like doing any transactions that aren't card-in-hand in any case. And in Canada we have the chip&pin transactions in any case. And to be honest, they make me feel much more secure and we have less trouble with foreign transactions this way. I wasn't really comfortable with charging people without the card in hand before this and I'm less comfortable with it, now.
At least it was nights when I wasn't full, so I didn't turn away paying guests for this. We have been ripped off three times in our long history of running B&Bs and every single time they guests were American. Not a good record.
.

We have been ripped off three times in our long history of running B&Bs and every single time they guests were American. Not a good record.

E- I'm finally going to have to ask you to stop bashing Americans. You do it rather frequently and it doesn't improve the dialog a bit.
The 'Americans did this' comment didn't add anything to your problem/solution and I find it annoying when you do this. Maybe we could all try to avoid bashing people who are not the same as we are, whatever that is.
If your purpose IS to annoy me or other Americans on this forum, congratulations, you succeeded. If, instead, you like hanging around here and discussing the trials and tribulations of innkeeping and didn't realize you were overly critical of your southern neighbors here's my request- please knock off the American-bashing.
.

Hats off to you. I appreciate your having pointed that out. As I have said in numerous dialogs, half of my family is Canadian. I live 15 miles from the border. I actually have close cousins who live in Ottawa.
Sometimes I think this website get's a bit "clicky".
I'm sure he didn't intend to be an U.S. basher. The regretful thing about posts or text messages is that you can not tell by the inflection of the voice and it is very often misunderstood.
Perhaps he can temper his comments or think through them as to how they could be misconstrued.

 

[Generic]

Well, I started to think back about this particular guest and I had a guess at what happened. So I asked the guy who's CC was supposedly stolen an indelicate question and well... I was right. And now I also know why that guest left on that particular day from our place.
It appears that this guest apparently steals people CC numbers during short lived sexual encounters (ie one-night stands) and well, he had one the night before he left our place. Of course, I don't know the name of the person that the guest slept with, but I assume that they were the next victim..

Interesting. So, the guy isn't going to claim fraud to his cc company because he might also have to explain how the loser got his cc number. He wants you to pony up because he couldn't keep his pants on. I'm curious now why you should lose out? Maybe the guy got a fairly cheap lesson out of this one.
And you're not sure you really know the name of the person who stayed with you. Do you ask for ID?
(As an aside, I don't really care who did what to whom, I'm concerned that you're being asked to pay for someone else's indiscretion.)
.

No. I wouldn't even consider reversing the charge without a police report or via the CC company. He already reported the fraud, so I'm expecting a chargeback. I've just never been through this.
Earlier today, when I was thinking about things it came to me that this might be the case. And I started the equiry. He was happy enough when I simply told him what we were (since I assume he saw the online charge) and I didn't elaborate or anything.
I actually put together the pieces before he did. But he did in fact have a picture of the person. I told him to submit it to the CC security department. He bought airplane tickets with the card, so they should be able to follow who's name the tickets were in and the passport used to board the plane.
For me, it's the loss of four nights. I will simply wait for the CC to reverse it. But it's really the first time I have ever had even the whiff of a chargeback.
.

Holy cow, that's a big loss. So, are you making any changes to avoid this sort of thing in the future? Just curious what it is we can do to protect ourselves. Because it's obvious the cc company doesn't eat any problem charges, we do. Do we only accept card-in-hand transactions? No third party transactions?
.

Well, I still have to think about it, but I won't do any third-party charges like that again.
I don't really like doing any transactions that aren't card-in-hand in any case. And in Canada we have the chip&pin transactions in any case. And to be honest, they make me feel much more secure and we have less trouble with foreign transactions this way. I wasn't really comfortable with charging people without the card in hand before this and I'm less comfortable with it, now.
At least it was nights when I wasn't full, so I didn't turn away paying guests for this. We have been ripped off three times in our long history of running B&Bs and every single time they guests were American. Not a good record.
.

We have been ripped off three times in our long history of running B&Bs and every single time they guests were American. Not a good record.

E- I'm finally going to have to ask you to stop bashing Americans. You do it rather frequently and it doesn't improve the dialog a bit.
The 'Americans did this' comment didn't add anything to your problem/solution and I find it annoying when you do this. Maybe we could all try to avoid bashing people who are not the same as we are, whatever that is.
If your purpose IS to annoy me or other Americans on this forum, congratulations, you succeeded. If, instead, you like hanging around here and discussing the trials and tribulations of innkeeping and didn't realize you were overly critical of your southern neighbors here's my request- please knock off the American-bashing.
.

Hats off to you. I appreciate your having pointed that out. As I have said in numerous dialogs, half of my family is Canadian. I live 15 miles from the border. I actually have close cousins who live in Ottawa.
Sometimes I think this website get's a bit "clicky".
I'm sure he didn't intend to be an U.S. basher. The regretful thing about posts or text messages is that you can not tell by the inflection of the voice and it is very often misunderstood.
Perhaps he can temper his comments or think through them as to how they could be misconstrued.
.

I assure that it is never my intent. Canadians and Americans are too intwined to think that way. I have a tendency to see things sociologically because of my education. That I see a difference is NEVER an inflection of either being better than the other, just that they are different. Please, never assume that I am preferential to one or the other.

 

[CafeMae]

Do not ever reverse a charge in such a situation. You let the person whose card it is go through their bank to contest the charge Let them determine the validity of the claim and let it stand since you are not going to dispute it.
I had someone pay for a room by credit card. I went out the door and across the road and her husband came to my helper and paid for the same room with a check. Just handed it in and it was deposited. It took a couple days to sort it out but I refunded the money to the husband by check. I was the one who discovered the double payment, not them.
Well, long story short, the woman heard that 'he had paid too' and was determined to contest the cc charge.
She won and the cc company took it back from my account with them. I sent her and the banks a copy of my cancelled check but the bank told me to take it up with the husband who never acknowledged anything. She felt vidicated because she felt I had tried to do something wrong.
So I was out the money. And there was no 'double charge' intended. It was just a mistake. She would not listen, insisted to her cc company and to her doddering husband that the money had not been refunded.
I was very upset and wish I'd just let things take their course via the banks..

I was very upset and wish I'd just let things take their course via the banks.

It's when someone questions your integrity that it really bothers you - especially when you're going out of the way trying to do the right thing. Thanks for the "lesson".