Cancellations... UGH!

[windyguest]

Hello all, we are new here, we own a 3 room bed and breakfast in Geneva NY, we have a strict no refund policy for all Hobart william smith events (the college here in Geneva) This is clearly stated on our website. We had a woman call in March to reserve our king room for Family weekend in September. She called in May to cancel saying her son decided to take a year off and that they would be back the following year. When we returned her call to remind her that weekend is NON refundable, she literally went up one side of us and down the other, saying she gave us plenty of notice to cancel. When we explained that our policy clearly states this on our website and that we could give her a gift certificate to use the following year, she said "We dont plan on coming back", which totally contradicts what she said when she left her voicemail. Before the phone call ended she threatened to just leave the room empty but we informed her that per her request the room had already been cancelled, she said you cant do that, You already have my money, so again we told her , the room was NON refundable. We also told her that she was only charged for a one night stay rather than the two night stay she had booked. (Our website states they will be charged the entire stay) After shouting and calling us rude and a few other choice things she said she was going to find someone else to buy the room from her.....we gave her until August 1 to do this, on August 6 (today) We sent an email to her which came back undeliverable....we found her husbands email and sent him the message that the room had been cancelled and was now back open for bookings. within minutes she called and again told us we were rude and ignorant people and she was going to tell everyone about us....blah blah blah....we tried again to explain to her that the weekend was NON refundable and that we would be happy to give her a gift certificate, (i wont bother telling you what she said we could do with it). At one point she said she was still coming and we told her the room had been cancelled. Before hanging up she said she was going to sell the room to someone else and hung up the phone. Since we have already cancelled her reservation and the room is open for booking, we are not sure how to handle this since it is very possible she will do as she said and sell the room to someone else......how would you handle this situation? what if she does send someone else and we have already rebooked?.

She cancelled. She doesn't have a room. If she 'sells' it to someone else, you have no responsibility.
Have you sent her a cancellation confirmation? If yes, you're done.
.

Yes Madeleine ....we sent her two actually, but the last phone call after she received the email, she stated she would sell it. Just wondering what we would do if she actually sold the room and that person showed up to claim it.....obviously we would tell her that reservation was cancelled per the womans request, but we arent really looking to argue with anyone that weekend as we will have other guests. or if this woman showed up herself (that would be balsey to say the least).....
.

the reason people have policies like this is to stop people like this booking ie you only book with sail's property if you are absolutely certain you are coming - we have the same for 2 events each year to stop people messing me about and altering, cancelling and trying to get round my minimum nights
.

Exactly Joey, we are not taking her money and booking the room, she was only charged half of what she should have been at time of booking, and was offered a gift certificate for that full amount, she told us what we could do with that GC.....our policy for any other stay is different, they get a refund if cancelled within 15 days of their stay minus the credit card fee......all of these things are on the policy they agree to before being able to book a room. I dont feel bad, This woman owns a yoga studio and has policies of her own, so its not like she has no clue. She just wants to get around the policy and its not happening. As i stated before , we STILL plan to send her the voucher for a one night stay, but it will say, non transferable and non exchangeable , and is good for one year.
.

Windyguest, THANK YOU for sticking to your policies and not be bullied.

I say this regardless of whether I agree or not with the policy you have!!! It IS your policy, they knew it when they booked.
I have had this situation twice. Once the person said she was going to send someone else. I told her I must have that name prior to the stay and if she did not want to be held liable for any other charges she should have the other guest call and provide their own CC to have on file. Had no one take the room.

The 2nd time we did have someone come in their place. They arrived with chips on their shoulders created by the story they were given by the person who booked. We knew it would be that way. We treated them as we do all our guests, they left with a smile on their face and happy they came.

Since this person told you explicitly what you could do with your GC, I am not sure I would even send it. Who would want her in their business?
BUT if you do feel the need to send it, you are right - call it a VOUCHER, not a GC. One night stay, non-transferable and has NO cash value. I would NOT give it a year, only 6mths. I would also put restrictions on the dates - not allowing it to be used for holiday or event periods. People who cancel within your cancellation period should not be given the opportunity to tie up another period of easy money! Also, it should state that once the booking is made, the voucher is deemed void.
.

Thank you so much for the great ideas. I only say that we should send her the GC/Voucher is because it does state that on our policy. I honestly dont believe she would show up here but one never knows what goes through someone elses head. If she did we would kill her with kindness of course.
If we are able to re book the room, I will send her the voucher, with the inclusions you suggested. If we are unable to re book that weekend, No voucher will be sent, thanks for the tips.

 

[Breakfast Diva]

Here's where I see that the trouble began.When she cancelled in May, you gave her the opportunity to find someone else. Why do that? You gave your power back to her. No, not financial power, but the power to create havoc. You could have told her that you'll cancel her reservation and keep the deposit unless you re-booked it. You know you could have rebooked that room probably within a few days of the cancellation.
You've made it very clear here that you're not looking for solutions, because you've rejected everything we've said. If you need to rant, just say it at the beginning of your post and we'll try not to offer solutions. That's tough for us though!

 

[Generic]

Hello all, we are new here, we own a 3 room bed and breakfast in Geneva NY, we have a strict no refund policy for all Hobart william smith events (the college here in Geneva) This is clearly stated on our website. We had a woman call in March to reserve our king room for Family weekend in September. She called in May to cancel saying her son decided to take a year off and that they would be back the following year. When we returned her call to remind her that weekend is NON refundable, she literally went up one side of us and down the other, saying she gave us plenty of notice to cancel. When we explained that our policy clearly states this on our website and that we could give her a gift certificate to use the following year, she said "We dont plan on coming back", which totally contradicts what she said when she left her voicemail. Before the phone call ended she threatened to just leave the room empty but we informed her that per her request the room had already been cancelled, she said you cant do that, You already have my money, so again we told her , the room was NON refundable. We also told her that she was only charged for a one night stay rather than the two night stay she had booked. (Our website states they will be charged the entire stay) After shouting and calling us rude and a few other choice things she said she was going to find someone else to buy the room from her.....we gave her until August 1 to do this, on August 6 (today) We sent an email to her which came back undeliverable....we found her husbands email and sent him the message that the room had been cancelled and was now back open for bookings. within minutes she called and again told us we were rude and ignorant people and she was going to tell everyone about us....blah blah blah....we tried again to explain to her that the weekend was NON refundable and that we would be happy to give her a gift certificate, (i wont bother telling you what she said we could do with it). At one point she said she was still coming and we told her the room had been cancelled. Before hanging up she said she was going to sell the room to someone else and hung up the phone. Since we have already cancelled her reservation and the room is open for booking, we are not sure how to handle this since it is very possible she will do as she said and sell the room to someone else......how would you handle this situation? what if she does send someone else and we have already rebooked?.

Honestly, I think you need to change your policy. Allow cancellation with a fee if it's easily rerentable. You still get to keep the fee and you don't have to worry about her writing a justifiable rant on TA.
.

Jon, for all our other days we do have that policy,(We just had someone cancel 18 days out, 2 rooms, 2 nights and he was refunded minus the fee) for HWS events it is NON refundable, if you look at the B&Bs in our area, all the policies are the same as ours, because the rooms are booked so far in advance by these people, we turn down a lot, and since it is so close to the event it is unlikely we will resell the room, unless we get a walk in.....our policy stays, as is, because it works, we are not going to be bullied, she will get her gift certificate as is stated in the policy, that she agreed to when she booked the room. The good thing about TA and B&B.com is that we get the last say, and we will clearly let others know why she left that review. Especially since her review would be about our policy and not her stay with us......
.

....The good thing about TA and B&B.com is that we get the last say, and we will clearly let others know why she left that review. Especially since her review would be about our policy and not her stay with us......

So you get the last word.... doesn't mean you won the battle.

 

[windyguest]

Hello all, we are new here, we own a 3 room bed and breakfast in Geneva NY, we have a strict no refund policy for all Hobart william smith events (the college here in Geneva) This is clearly stated on our website. We had a woman call in March to reserve our king room for Family weekend in September. She called in May to cancel saying her son decided to take a year off and that they would be back the following year. When we returned her call to remind her that weekend is NON refundable, she literally went up one side of us and down the other, saying she gave us plenty of notice to cancel. When we explained that our policy clearly states this on our website and that we could give her a gift certificate to use the following year, she said "We dont plan on coming back", which totally contradicts what she said when she left her voicemail. Before the phone call ended she threatened to just leave the room empty but we informed her that per her request the room had already been cancelled, she said you cant do that, You already have my money, so again we told her , the room was NON refundable. We also told her that she was only charged for a one night stay rather than the two night stay she had booked. (Our website states they will be charged the entire stay) After shouting and calling us rude and a few other choice things she said she was going to find someone else to buy the room from her.....we gave her until August 1 to do this, on August 6 (today) We sent an email to her which came back undeliverable....we found her husbands email and sent him the message that the room had been cancelled and was now back open for bookings. within minutes she called and again told us we were rude and ignorant people and she was going to tell everyone about us....blah blah blah....we tried again to explain to her that the weekend was NON refundable and that we would be happy to give her a gift certificate, (i wont bother telling you what she said we could do with it). At one point she said she was still coming and we told her the room had been cancelled. Before hanging up she said she was going to sell the room to someone else and hung up the phone. Since we have already cancelled her reservation and the room is open for booking, we are not sure how to handle this since it is very possible she will do as she said and sell the room to someone else......how would you handle this situation? what if she does send someone else and we have already rebooked?.

Honestly, I think you need to change your policy. Allow cancellation with a fee if it's easily rerentable. You still get to keep the fee and you don't have to worry about her writing a justifiable rant on TA.
.

Jon, for all our other days we do have that policy,(We just had someone cancel 18 days out, 2 rooms, 2 nights and he was refunded minus the fee) for HWS events it is NON refundable, if you look at the B&Bs in our area, all the policies are the same as ours, because the rooms are booked so far in advance by these people, we turn down a lot, and since it is so close to the event it is unlikely we will resell the room, unless we get a walk in.....our policy stays, as is, because it works, we are not going to be bullied, she will get her gift certificate as is stated in the policy, that she agreed to when she booked the room. The good thing about TA and B&B.com is that we get the last say, and we will clearly let others know why she left that review. Especially since her review would be about our policy and not her stay with us......
.

....The good thing about TA and B&B.com is that we get the last say, and we will clearly let others know why she left that review. Especially since her review would be about our policy and not her stay with us......

So you get the last word.... doesn't mean you won the battle.
.

clearly you have your opinion and i have mine, have a great day Jon

 

[windyguest]

Hello all, we are new here, we own a 3 room bed and breakfast in Geneva NY, we have a strict no refund policy for all Hobart william smith events (the college here in Geneva) This is clearly stated on our website. We had a woman call in March to reserve our king room for Family weekend in September. She called in May to cancel saying her son decided to take a year off and that they would be back the following year. When we returned her call to remind her that weekend is NON refundable, she literally went up one side of us and down the other, saying she gave us plenty of notice to cancel. When we explained that our policy clearly states this on our website and that we could give her a gift certificate to use the following year, she said "We dont plan on coming back", which totally contradicts what she said when she left her voicemail. Before the phone call ended she threatened to just leave the room empty but we informed her that per her request the room had already been cancelled, she said you cant do that, You already have my money, so again we told her , the room was NON refundable. We also told her that she was only charged for a one night stay rather than the two night stay she had booked. (Our website states they will be charged the entire stay) After shouting and calling us rude and a few other choice things she said she was going to find someone else to buy the room from her.....we gave her until August 1 to do this, on August 6 (today) We sent an email to her which came back undeliverable....we found her husbands email and sent him the message that the room had been cancelled and was now back open for bookings. within minutes she called and again told us we were rude and ignorant people and she was going to tell everyone about us....blah blah blah....we tried again to explain to her that the weekend was NON refundable and that we would be happy to give her a gift certificate, (i wont bother telling you what she said we could do with it). At one point she said she was still coming and we told her the room had been cancelled. Before hanging up she said she was going to sell the room to someone else and hung up the phone. Since we have already cancelled her reservation and the room is open for booking, we are not sure how to handle this since it is very possible she will do as she said and sell the room to someone else......how would you handle this situation? what if she does send someone else and we have already rebooked?.

Honestly, I think you need to change your policy. Allow cancellation with a fee if it's easily rerentable. You still get to keep the fee and you don't have to worry about her writing a justifiable rant on TA.
.

Jon, for all our other days we do have that policy,(We just had someone cancel 18 days out, 2 rooms, 2 nights and he was refunded minus the fee) for HWS events it is NON refundable, if you look at the B&Bs in our area, all the policies are the same as ours, because the rooms are booked so far in advance by these people, we turn down a lot, and since it is so close to the event it is unlikely we will resell the room, unless we get a walk in.....our policy stays, as is, because it works, we are not going to be bullied, she will get her gift certificate as is stated in the policy, that she agreed to when she booked the room. The good thing about TA and B&B.com is that we get the last say, and we will clearly let others know why she left that review. Especially since her review would be about our policy and not her stay with us......
.

...If you look at the B&Bs in our area, all the policies are the same as ours...

Follow the leader, is not a good policy. Set the policy that is more customer friendly and increase the rate if it is going to book no matter what. If your policy reads no cancellation, then she didn't need to call and she could have just let the room sit. You want them to call and cancel and give you a chance to resell and double dip. So maybe 1 night if they cancel more than 30 days out but no gift certificate. And then maybe if they cancel closer they get a gift certificate for up to 50% if you can rebook the room.
.

You are correct Jon, she didnt need to call, she did because she wanted her money back, and not the gift certificate she was suppose to get. Our policy works for most people and for the percentage that she represents we dont need her business. This B&B is not our only source of income so we can afford to be choosey.
If she had let the room sit and didnt show, she would have still been charged for being a no show, so whats the point in that when she wanted a full refund? In my opinion by us not charging her for the entire stay to begin with, and offering her a GC for the cancellation is more than fair. she cancelled in May, but we allowed her until August 1 to resell her room, she didnt, we have less than 4 weeks to rent that room and im pretty sure unless we get a walk in, thats NOT going to happen.(anyone who was looking for a room for that weekend has already found one elsewhere, because they know how hard it is to get a room for that weekend) If she werent so disrespectful, she may have persuaded us to give her more, but the way she behaved , she gets nothing.
.

So all of the innkeepers advice here is useless.
When you get tee'd off by something consider an action that may help vs bellyaching. Jus' sayin', we all do it, we all understand how you feel, we really do. If you wanted a hug we are sorry we tried to help or fix things, that is what we always do here, it is in our nature, even when we are not asked for a fix or help.
Carry on...
.

I never said the advice was useless, i came here to ask how to handle things if this woman showed up at my door even though her reservation was cancelled and most of the comments are telling me to change my policy, im sorry you feel that this is bellyaching, i thought perhaps i would get some good advice, not reemed a new one because you dont like my policy.
Maybe this is not the proper place to ask questions and expect a response to the question i posed, instead you have made me feel like i have to explain myself and my policy, which was never the question in the first place. Since some of you feel im bellyaching or that i didnt follow through with your advice to change my policy, i will not post anymore about this, i will continue to run my business the way i have been, thanks to the rest who have helped in my quest for an answer.

 

[windyguest]

Here's where I see that the trouble began.When she cancelled in May, you gave her the opportunity to find someone else. Why do that? You gave your power back to her. No, not financial power, but the power to create havoc. You could have told her that you'll cancel her reservation and keep the deposit unless you re-booked it. You know you could have rebooked that room probably within a few days of the cancellation.
You've made it very clear here that you're not looking for solutions, because you've rejected everything we've said. If you need to rant, just say it at the beginning of your post and we'll try not to offer solutions. That's tough for us though!.

okay yes you are correct, im here to complain and thats all there is to it, thanks for your help

 

[Madeleine]

Hello all, we are new here, we own a 3 room bed and breakfast in Geneva NY, we have a strict no refund policy for all Hobart william smith events (the college here in Geneva) This is clearly stated on our website. We had a woman call in March to reserve our king room for Family weekend in September. She called in May to cancel saying her son decided to take a year off and that they would be back the following year. When we returned her call to remind her that weekend is NON refundable, she literally went up one side of us and down the other, saying she gave us plenty of notice to cancel. When we explained that our policy clearly states this on our website and that we could give her a gift certificate to use the following year, she said "We dont plan on coming back", which totally contradicts what she said when she left her voicemail. Before the phone call ended she threatened to just leave the room empty but we informed her that per her request the room had already been cancelled, she said you cant do that, You already have my money, so again we told her , the room was NON refundable. We also told her that she was only charged for a one night stay rather than the two night stay she had booked. (Our website states they will be charged the entire stay) After shouting and calling us rude and a few other choice things she said she was going to find someone else to buy the room from her.....we gave her until August 1 to do this, on August 6 (today) We sent an email to her which came back undeliverable....we found her husbands email and sent him the message that the room had been cancelled and was now back open for bookings. within minutes she called and again told us we were rude and ignorant people and she was going to tell everyone about us....blah blah blah....we tried again to explain to her that the weekend was NON refundable and that we would be happy to give her a gift certificate, (i wont bother telling you what she said we could do with it). At one point she said she was still coming and we told her the room had been cancelled. Before hanging up she said she was going to sell the room to someone else and hung up the phone. Since we have already cancelled her reservation and the room is open for booking, we are not sure how to handle this since it is very possible she will do as she said and sell the room to someone else......how would you handle this situation? what if she does send someone else and we have already rebooked?.

Honestly, I think you need to change your policy. Allow cancellation with a fee if it's easily rerentable. You still get to keep the fee and you don't have to worry about her writing a justifiable rant on TA.
.

Jon, for all our other days we do have that policy,(We just had someone cancel 18 days out, 2 rooms, 2 nights and he was refunded minus the fee) for HWS events it is NON refundable, if you look at the B&Bs in our area, all the policies are the same as ours, because the rooms are booked so far in advance by these people, we turn down a lot, and since it is so close to the event it is unlikely we will resell the room, unless we get a walk in.....our policy stays, as is, because it works, we are not going to be bullied, she will get her gift certificate as is stated in the policy, that she agreed to when she booked the room. The good thing about TA and B&B.com is that we get the last say, and we will clearly let others know why she left that review. Especially since her review would be about our policy and not her stay with us......
.

...If you look at the B&Bs in our area, all the policies are the same as ours...

Follow the leader, is not a good policy. Set the policy that is more customer friendly and increase the rate if it is going to book no matter what. If your policy reads no cancellation, then she didn't need to call and she could have just let the room sit. You want them to call and cancel and give you a chance to resell and double dip. So maybe 1 night if they cancel more than 30 days out but no gift certificate. And then maybe if they cancel closer they get a gift certificate for up to 50% if you can rebook the room.
.

You are correct Jon, she didnt need to call, she did because she wanted her money back, and not the gift certificate she was suppose to get. Our policy works for most people and for the percentage that she represents we dont need her business. This B&B is not our only source of income so we can afford to be choosey.
If she had let the room sit and didnt show, she would have still been charged for being a no show, so whats the point in that when she wanted a full refund? In my opinion by us not charging her for the entire stay to begin with, and offering her a GC for the cancellation is more than fair. she cancelled in May, but we allowed her until August 1 to resell her room, she didnt, we have less than 4 weeks to rent that room and im pretty sure unless we get a walk in, thats NOT going to happen.(anyone who was looking for a room for that weekend has already found one elsewhere, because they know how hard it is to get a room for that weekend) If she werent so disrespectful, she may have persuaded us to give her more, but the way she behaved , she gets nothing.
.

So all of the innkeepers advice here is useless.
When you get tee'd off by something consider an action that may help vs bellyaching. Jus' sayin', we all do it, we all understand how you feel, we really do. If you wanted a hug we are sorry we tried to help or fix things, that is what we always do here, it is in our nature, even when we are not asked for a fix or help.
Carry on...
.

I never said the advice was useless, i came here to ask how to handle things if this woman showed up at my door even though her reservation was cancelled and most of the comments are telling me to change my policy, im sorry you feel that this is bellyaching, i thought perhaps i would get some good advice, not reemed a new one because you dont like my policy.
Maybe this is not the proper place to ask questions and expect a response to the question i posed, instead you have made me feel like i have to explain myself and my policy, which was never the question in the first place. Since some of you feel im bellyaching or that i didnt follow through with your advice to change my policy, i will not post anymore about this, i will continue to run my business the way i have been, thanks to the rest who have helped in my quest for an answer.
.

You still have no more obligation to the guest than what you have done this far. You had your policy, she agreed to it, you gave her months to find someone to take her place, she didn't.
You can follow thru on what you told her, which is what your policy states.
But, yeah, I think the subject is probably better off closed at this point.
I hope you have no more grief from this guest.
We looked at inns over in your area. Very pretty country around there.

 

[Skamokawa]

Here's where I see that the trouble began.When she cancelled in May, you gave her the opportunity to find someone else. Why do that? You gave your power back to her. No, not financial power, but the power to create havoc. You could have told her that you'll cancel her reservation and keep the deposit unless you re-booked it. You know you could have rebooked that room probably within a few days of the cancellation.
You've made it very clear here that you're not looking for solutions, because you've rejected everything we've said. If you need to rant, just say it at the beginning of your post and we'll try not to offer solutions. That's tough for us though!.

Like Diva indicated, its tough for us not to stick our oar in. Please consider also that when any of us share an incident and solutions - or ideas are offered, those of us who are reading about a situation that has not yet happened to us learn the most. At our inn we've put into place many procedures and policies due to situations that have cropped up elsewhere. Forum members have saved each other much grief, and have offered much commiserating when grief has struck, as it is bound to for all of us. So sorry this happened to you.
It's August now, the toughest month.

 

[swirt]

Hello all, we are new here, we own a 3 room bed and breakfast in Geneva NY, we have a strict no refund policy for all Hobart william smith events (the college here in Geneva) This is clearly stated on our website. We had a woman call in March to reserve our king room for Family weekend in September. She called in May to cancel saying her son decided to take a year off and that they would be back the following year. When we returned her call to remind her that weekend is NON refundable, she literally went up one side of us and down the other, saying she gave us plenty of notice to cancel. When we explained that our policy clearly states this on our website and that we could give her a gift certificate to use the following year, she said "We dont plan on coming back", which totally contradicts what she said when she left her voicemail. Before the phone call ended she threatened to just leave the room empty but we informed her that per her request the room had already been cancelled, she said you cant do that, You already have my money, so again we told her , the room was NON refundable. We also told her that she was only charged for a one night stay rather than the two night stay she had booked. (Our website states they will be charged the entire stay) After shouting and calling us rude and a few other choice things she said she was going to find someone else to buy the room from her.....we gave her until August 1 to do this, on August 6 (today) We sent an email to her which came back undeliverable....we found her husbands email and sent him the message that the room had been cancelled and was now back open for bookings. within minutes she called and again told us we were rude and ignorant people and she was going to tell everyone about us....blah blah blah....we tried again to explain to her that the weekend was NON refundable and that we would be happy to give her a gift certificate, (i wont bother telling you what she said we could do with it). At one point she said she was still coming and we told her the room had been cancelled. Before hanging up she said she was going to sell the room to someone else and hung up the phone. Since we have already cancelled her reservation and the room is open for booking, we are not sure how to handle this since it is very possible she will do as she said and sell the room to someone else......how would you handle this situation? what if she does send someone else and we have already rebooked?.

Hi and Welcome to Innspiring.
It's easy with difficult guests to get off your focus on the end game. The end game is to have happy guests (and potential guests) in your beds while having money coming in.
I am a fan of sticking to a policy, but I am also a fan of having a policy that supports my sanity AND the end game.
So, sticking to 'the policy' here is what you ended up with.

• ~$70 for 1/2 night Room fee (cutting your income in half because you are sending them a gift certificate for another night in the future).
• Pissed off guest who fully meets the criteria needed to write horrendous reviews (by criteria I mean she interacted with the business and had an experience)
• No rented room (absence of happy guests) because what was originally 4 months notice got that got cut to a few weeks (based on deviating from your policy)
• All kinds of stress over her anger and what she might do (show up, bad reviews, send someone else pounding on your door, souring other guests who have to listen to the ranting they will likely do, ranting at breakfast when she uses her gift certificate...).
• Possible added hassle of dealing with a chargeback from their credit card.

Altering your policy slightly to include, "refunding your deposit minus a smallish fee ($25) if we are are able to re-rent the room. Here is what you would have ended up with:

• $280 2 nights room fee (because you would have made the room available for booking at 4 months out, you would have been able to re-book the room AND she would have had incentive to find someone to book the room because she would get a nearly full refund. )
• She would be generally happy, because she would feel she was being treated fairly.
• $25 cancellation fee
• 2 happy guests who got to stay at your place.

When you look at the end results, If it were me, I'd go for the end result with the less stress . The fact that it also achieves the rest of the goals is just icing on the cake.
You may want to change your username, as this thread is already showing up for a search on your bb name. It is low right now, but it will climb and you don't want potential guests finding this thread, and we don't want the angry one finding this thread either